6 ms·

maybe it could be used in atmospheric carbon capture?

ncmncm 5y ago
We already know how best to capture atmospheric carbon. The ocean, all 65M km^2 of it, is already capturing atmospheric carbon. This would be good, except that it is also making the top layer of the ocean acidic, which threatens to kill the whole damn ocean ecosystem; and the top layer is getting saturated, so not capturing as much. So, the solution is to pump surface water down deep, where there is more capacity and where it can do less harm. Maybe pump deep water to the surface, too, so that water not already saturated with carbon can better absorb it; and maybe deliver that to reefs, which need it. You can float wind turbines on buoys in deep water, and pay for them with carbon credits. Of course this does no good at all unless you also stop piling more carbon into the atmosphere. But you can start doing it before that, and then get increasing benefit after.
- Kalanos 5y ago
  isn't bottom of ocean == bottom of food chain? the whole system could collapse
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    No, that is at the top of the ocean, the part where the carbonic acid is all going right now. There is way more "bottom" than most people can conceive of.
- mleonhard 5y ago
  When CO2 dissolves in the ocean, some of it will eventually end up as methane ice in ocean mud [0]. Methane ice releases its methane when warmed slightly. More methane ice means higher chances of runaway global warming. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Hint: CO2 is already dissolving in the ocean. Hint: CO2 does not turn into methane. Methane clathrates on the sea bottom got there by seeping out from bottom mud, and froze there. Sometimes the methane was excreted by microbes in sea-bottom mud; other times it comes from the rocks. Often, methane and other seeped hydrocarbons are oxidized to CO2 by microbes.
    - mleonhard 5y ago
      > CO2 is already dissolving in the ocean. Yes, and it's saturating the top levels of the ocean. GP suggested mixing the ocean to saturate more of it. > CO2 does not turn into methane. CO2 gets turned into many things, as part of the ocean carbon cycle [0]. Algae near the surface absorb CO2, incorporating it into their cells. Algae is the bottom of the ocean food chain. Increasing the algae increases the overall amount of life in the ocean, increasing the rate of organic detritus accumulating on the ocean floor [1], forming more mud. Bacteria in the mud consume the organic detritus and emit methane [2]. Methane ice is one of the few ways that carbon can exit the cycle. Therefore increasing the volume of carbon in the cycle will make methane ice accumulate faster. Over centuries, the world's CO2 pollution could get converted into methane ice on continental shelves. Then a minor warming event could trigger the release of all that carbon. But the carbon is methane now, which is 70x more warming than CO2. The warming effect could be catastrophic for our ecosystem. I think this is a risk of utilizing the ocean as a CO2 sink. People in the year 4,000 may curse us for our carbon pollution and the resources they must spend to clean it up and convert methane ice into something more stable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankton#Carbon_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankton#Carbon_cycle [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane#Seafloor_sediments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane#Seafloor_sediments
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        Hint: Methane clathrates on the deep sea floor will not be releasing their methane. That is possible only where temperature is changing and pressure is low, neither of which will happen without surface changes catastrophic enough to make methane irrelevent. In any case, accumulation happens over eons. There is exactly zero risk of carbon stirred into the deep ocean becoming methane released into the atmosphere in this eon. Carbon in surface water can be metabolized, and may then be released as methane. Carbon moved to deep water is removed from that process. You are reaching. It is not a good look.

We already know how best to capture atmospheric carbon. The ocean, all 65M km^2 of it, is already capturing atmospheric carbon. This would be good, except that it is also making the top layer of the ocean acidic, which threatens to kill the whole damn ocean ecosystem; and the top layer is getting saturated, so not capturing as much. So, the solution is to pump surface water down deep, where there is more capacity and where it can do less harm. Maybe pump deep water to the surface, too, so that water not already saturated with carbon can better absorb it; and maybe deliver that to reefs, which need it. You can float wind turbines on buoys in deep water, and pay for them with carbon credits. Of course this does no good at all unless you also stop piling more carbon into the atmosphere. But you can start doing it before that, and then get increasing benefit after.

Kalanos 5y ago
isn't bottom of ocean == bottom of food chain? the whole system could collapse
- ncmncm 5y ago
  No, that is at the top of the ocean, the part where the carbonic acid is all going right now. There is way more "bottom" than most people can conceive of.
mleonhard 5y ago
When CO2 dissolves in the ocean, some of it will eventually end up as methane ice in ocean mud [0]. Methane ice releases its methane when warmed slightly. More methane ice means higher chances of runaway global warming. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Hint: CO2 is already dissolving in the ocean. Hint: CO2 does not turn into methane. Methane clathrates on the sea bottom got there by seeping out from bottom mud, and froze there. Sometimes the methane was excreted by microbes in sea-bottom mud; other times it comes from the rocks. Often, methane and other seeped hydrocarbons are oxidized to CO2 by microbes.
  - mleonhard 5y ago
    > CO2 is already dissolving in the ocean. Yes, and it's saturating the top levels of the ocean. GP suggested mixing the ocean to saturate more of it. > CO2 does not turn into methane. CO2 gets turned into many things, as part of the ocean carbon cycle [0]. Algae near the surface absorb CO2, incorporating it into their cells. Algae is the bottom of the ocean food chain. Increasing the algae increases the overall amount of life in the ocean, increasing the rate of organic detritus accumulating on the ocean floor [1], forming more mud. Bacteria in the mud consume the organic detritus and emit methane [2]. Methane ice is one of the few ways that carbon can exit the cycle. Therefore increasing the volume of carbon in the cycle will make methane ice accumulate faster. Over centuries, the world's CO2 pollution could get converted into methane ice on continental shelves. Then a minor warming event could trigger the release of all that carbon. But the carbon is methane now, which is 70x more warming than CO2. The warming effect could be catastrophic for our ecosystem. I think this is a risk of utilizing the ocean as a CO2 sink. People in the year 4,000 may curse us for our carbon pollution and the resources they must spend to clean it up and convert methane ice into something more stable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankton#Carbon_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankton#Carbon_cycle [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane#Seafloor_sediments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane#Seafloor_sediments
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      Hint: Methane clathrates on the deep sea floor will not be releasing their methane. That is possible only where temperature is changing and pressure is low, neither of which will happen without surface changes catastrophic enough to make methane irrelevent. In any case, accumulation happens over eons. There is exactly zero risk of carbon stirred into the deep ocean becoming methane released into the atmosphere in this eon. Carbon in surface water can be metabolized, and may then be released as methane. Carbon moved to deep water is removed from that process. You are reaching. It is not a good look.