5 ms·

I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. When I hear people say "vaccine passport" I assume they mean "COVID-19 vaccination documentation". Is th

I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. When I hear people say "vaccine passport" I assume they mean "COVID-19 vaccination documentation". Is that a correct interpretation, or does a vaccine passport mean something more? If it is just "COVID-19 vaccination documentation", has there been a push to not allow the paper documentation? I've been primarily using my paper documentation without issue. As far as I'm aware, digital access to your vaccination status is simply a nice to have redundancy.

stickfigure 5y ago
I need to lead this with "I'm fully vaccinated and pro-vaccine" so nobody gets the wrong idea (I'm disappointed that this is the state of discourse) BUT... Anyone can print a piece of paper. If vaccination requirements are going to have any teeth whatsoever, they will need to be much more invasive. A central database is the minimum. You'll need holographic cards with your picture, like driver's licenses. Spot checks on restaurants to ensure they're checking ids properly, and serious consequences for failure - you'll need a license to serve food, and the FABC (food and alcoholic beverage control) board will be able to fine you or revoke it. Basically, you'll need to treat almost all of public society the way we treat alcoholic beverage sales. I personally find that terrifying and would rather see covid run rampant.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  Anyone can print a piece of paper, but it’s also amazing how much a small obstacle can affect people’s behavior. So yes, to get 100% compliance you would need the measures you outline, but who says that’s the goal?
- jsnell 5y ago
  The vaccination certificate in the EU has a QR code that can be cryptographically verified to have been issued by a legit authority, tells why the certificate has been issued (e.g. vaccination, negative test, etc), and embeds the name of the person such that their identity can be cross-checked against some form of official ID. So there's no need for anything more complex than a piece of paper you can download + print. What you can't do is make a QR code of your own, change the validity reason of an existing code, or use somebody else's certificate with your own identity.
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    You still need the enforcement regime. Restaurants/bars/etc must have someone at the door scanning everyone's QR code (and cross checking it against a photo ID). Law enforcement must run stings against restaurants to ensure they're checking properly. It's gross.
    - jsnell 5y ago
      Restaurants can have the ID check done by the waiter when taking the order. There is very little overhead, certainly no need to employ an extra person to check papers at the door. I doubt any law enforcement is running random stings. They would probably wait for members of the public to report this first. I don't think checking IDs is gross, and obviously if you do, there is nothing I could say to change your mind. But it doesn't change the fact that Covid passports are easily implementable with paper, there is no need for the to be "holographic picture ID".
      - chopin 5y ago
        I certainly wouldn't want to go to a restaurant which checks my ID. We're heading to a state of affairs where you can't move in public anonymously. This is a dystopian nightmare.
      - stickfigure 5y ago
        You seem to have latched on to the least important part of what I've said. Yes, a centralized database combined with always-on internet access can suffice instead of holographic cards (in the same way that nowadays, police officers don't really need to look at your drivers license - they can just look you up from their car), but that's strictly worse from a privacy/dystopia perspective. And it does not work at all for offline dining. Holographic cards would actually be better since it doesn't notify a central authority where and when everyone dines. You seem to be comfortable with the idea that "party of 6" sits down, and the waiter spends the next 5 minutes screwing with his phone scanning everyone's (printed?) QR codes and verifying faces. I would rather get covid. Here in the US, ABC boards do in fact run stings on bars and restaurants to make sure they are checking ids. And yes history has shown that it is absolutely necessary if you want compliance.

stickfigure 5y ago

I need to lead this with "I'm fully vaccinated and pro-vaccine" so nobody gets the wrong idea (I'm disappointed that this is the state of discourse) BUT... Anyone can print a piece of paper. If vaccination requirements are going to have any teeth whatsoever, they will need to be much more invasive. A central database is the minimum. You'll need holographic cards with your picture, like driver's licenses. Spot checks on restaurants to ensure they're checking ids properly, and serious consequences for failure - you'll need a license to serve food, and the FABC (food and alcoholic beverage control) board will be able to fine you or revoke it. Basically, you'll need to treat almost all of public society the way we treat alcoholic beverage sales. I personally find that terrifying and would rather see covid run rampant.

wbsss4412 5y ago
Anyone can print a piece of paper, but it’s also amazing how much a small obstacle can affect people’s behavior. So yes, to get 100% compliance you would need the measures you outline, but who says that’s the goal?
jsnell 5y ago
The vaccination certificate in the EU has a QR code that can be cryptographically verified to have been issued by a legit authority, tells why the certificate has been issued (e.g. vaccination, negative test, etc), and embeds the name of the person such that their identity can be cross-checked against some form of official ID. So there's no need for anything more complex than a piece of paper you can download + print. What you can't do is make a QR code of your own, change the validity reason of an existing code, or use somebody else's certificate with your own identity.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  You still need the enforcement regime. Restaurants/bars/etc must have someone at the door scanning everyone's QR code (and cross checking it against a photo ID). Law enforcement must run stings against restaurants to ensure they're checking properly. It's gross.
  - jsnell 5y ago
    Restaurants can have the ID check done by the waiter when taking the order. There is very little overhead, certainly no need to employ an extra person to check papers at the door. I doubt any law enforcement is running random stings. They would probably wait for members of the public to report this first. I don't think checking IDs is gross, and obviously if you do, there is nothing I could say to change your mind. But it doesn't change the fact that Covid passports are easily implementable with paper, there is no need for the to be "holographic picture ID".
    - chopin 5y ago
      I certainly wouldn't want to go to a restaurant which checks my ID. We're heading to a state of affairs where you can't move in public anonymously. This is a dystopian nightmare.
    - stickfigure 5y ago
      You seem to have latched on to the least important part of what I've said. Yes, a centralized database combined with always-on internet access can suffice instead of holographic cards (in the same way that nowadays, police officers don't really need to look at your drivers license - they can just look you up from their car), but that's strictly worse from a privacy/dystopia perspective. And it does not work at all for offline dining. Holographic cards would actually be better since it doesn't notify a central authority where and when everyone dines. You seem to be comfortable with the idea that "party of 6" sits down, and the waiter spends the next 5 minutes screwing with his phone scanning everyone's (printed?) QR codes and verifying faces. I would rather get covid. Here in the US, ABC boards do in fact run stings on bars and restaurants to make sure they are checking ids. And yes history has shown that it is absolutely necessary if you want compliance.