5 ms·

I thought the internet would route around failures. Why does that not apply to North Korea?

brimble 5y ago
If you are the failure, no, it does not. [EDIT] I immediately saw that that could be read as a swipe at NK, which wasn't how it was intended. Just that if you're on the wrong side of a failure, you're not gonna be able to "route around the failure".
a_t48 5y ago
I’m not so sure this applies with centralized tracking/filtering.
theandrewbailey 5y ago
North Korea is poorly connected to the rest of the internet, by their own design. I know that a few years ago, there was only one link to the outside; not sure if that's changed, but I have no reason to think that it would have.
- RL_Quine 5y ago
  https://bgpview.io/asn/131279#upstreams-v4 https://bgpview.io/asn/131279#upstreams-v4 https://bgp.he.net/AS131279#_graph4 https://bgp.he.net/AS131279#_graph4 They have two peers, AS134544 in CN and AS20485 in RU.
  - c0nsumer 5y ago
    Am I seeing that right in that .nk only has four /24s?
    - RL_Quine 5y ago
      All four announced prefixes are part of 175.45.176.0/22, for a total of 1024 IPv4 addresses.
      - c0nsumer 5y ago
        Yep, that's... just not a lot.
        RL_Quine 5y ago
        For a period of time the entire of Qatar used a single IP address for all browsing traffic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:82.148.97.69 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:82.148.97.69
    - hhh 5y ago
      Yes. If I recall correctly from when I used to follow NK related news, there’s enough coverage from a subset of Chinese satellites from satellite ISPs that there could be viable connections made there. No way to say if they are being used for this or not, though.
Fordec 5y ago
It routes around failures, the timelines for delivery are not promised though.
Jtsummers 5y ago
The ability to route around failures is predicated on having a sufficiently high degree of interconnectedness. Even your home network won't magic up a new connection if someone decides to cut your cable line. NK's network is poorly connected to the rest of the Internet, and so there is limited ability to "route around failure".
- jaywalk 5y ago
  > Even your home network won't magic up a new connection if someone decides to cut your cable line. Well then wtf am I paying for this LTE backup connection for? (joking, of course)
user-the-name 5y ago
Has it ever actually done that?
- jaywalk 5y ago
  Literally all day, every day.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bravetraveler 5y ago
  Pretty much constantly [edit: for those who take the time to implement], a common approach is called anycast. You essentially announce your address at two (or more) geographically distinct places, and BGP routing 'magic' can get you to the closest (or sometimes only responsive) one
woodruffw 5y ago
The Internet is "failure-resistant" in the senses that (1) individual networks going down don't take down the entire Internet, and (2) networks that peer with other networks can still be routed to so long as at least one route is still online. North Korea's failure demonstrates both of these properties: the Internet is still online, and the routing failure has manifested because all of their peering routes are down.
- hirako2000 5y ago
  and the aws/Facebook recent cases demonstrate that the Internet is slowly loosing that property. People called me up and asked me why the Internet was broken. they normally use apps to communicate, but they thought the Internet was entirely down...
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    This is pedantic of me, but: the Internet isn't losing that property. Social groups on the Internet are consolidating their behavior onto individual networks/ASes, which then go down. It's a social and political problem, one that people can solve by changing their behavior.

If you are the failure, no, it does not. [EDIT] I immediately saw that that could be read as a swipe at NK, which wasn't how it was intended. Just that if you're on the wrong side of a failure, you're not gonna be able to "route around the failure".

a_t48 5y ago

I’m not so sure this applies with centralized tracking/filtering.

theandrewbailey 5y ago

North Korea is poorly connected to the rest of the internet, by their own design. I know that a few years ago, there was only one link to the outside; not sure if that's changed, but I have no reason to think that it would have.

RL_Quine 5y ago
https://bgpview.io/asn/131279#upstreams-v4 https://bgpview.io/asn/131279#upstreams-v4 https://bgp.he.net/AS131279#_graph4 https://bgp.he.net/AS131279#_graph4 They have two peers, AS134544 in CN and AS20485 in RU.
- c0nsumer 5y ago
  Am I seeing that right in that .nk only has four /24s?
  - RL_Quine 5y ago
    All four announced prefixes are part of 175.45.176.0/22, for a total of 1024 IPv4 addresses.
    - c0nsumer 5y ago
      Yep, that's... just not a lot.
      - RL_Quine 5y ago
        For a period of time the entire of Qatar used a single IP address for all browsing traffic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:82.148.97.69 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:82.148.97.69
  - hhh 5y ago
    Yes. If I recall correctly from when I used to follow NK related news, there’s enough coverage from a subset of Chinese satellites from satellite ISPs that there could be viable connections made there. No way to say if they are being used for this or not, though.

Fordec 5y ago

It routes around failures, the timelines for delivery are not promised though.

Jtsummers 5y ago

The ability to route around failures is predicated on having a sufficiently high degree of interconnectedness. Even your home network won't magic up a new connection if someone decides to cut your cable line. NK's network is poorly connected to the rest of the Internet, and so there is limited ability to "route around failure".

jaywalk 5y ago
> Even your home network won't magic up a new connection if someone decides to cut your cable line. Well then wtf am I paying for this LTE backup connection for? (joking, of course)

user-the-name 5y ago

Has it ever actually done that?

jaywalk 5y ago
Literally all day, every day.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bravetraveler 5y ago
Pretty much constantly [edit: for those who take the time to implement], a common approach is called anycast. You essentially announce your address at two (or more) geographically distinct places, and BGP routing 'magic' can get you to the closest (or sometimes only responsive) one

woodruffw 5y ago

The Internet is "failure-resistant" in the senses that (1) individual networks going down don't take down the entire Internet, and (2) networks that peer with other networks can still be routed to so long as at least one route is still online. North Korea's failure demonstrates both of these properties: the Internet is still online, and the routing failure has manifested because all of their peering routes are down.

hirako2000 5y ago
and the aws/Facebook recent cases demonstrate that the Internet is slowly loosing that property. People called me up and asked me why the Internet was broken. they normally use apps to communicate, but they thought the Internet was entirely down...
- woodruffw 5y ago
  This is pedantic of me, but: the Internet isn't losing that property. Social groups on the Internet are consolidating their behavior onto individual networks/ASes, which then go down. It's a social and political problem, one that people can solve by changing their behavior.