5 ms·

> “The only way to get compliance from people and get accommodation [is] if we demonstrate the ability to withdraw these [mandates] in the same manner in which

> “The only way to get compliance from people and get accommodation [is] if we demonstrate the ability to withdraw these [mandates] in the same manner in which we put them in,” Gottlieb added. Nope. That line was crossed a long time ago. I can't imagine people suddenly regaining trust in pharma companies and health care agencies now because they backed off at this point.

xadhominemx 5y ago
Do you really think Republicans are not getting vaccinated because they “don’t trust” pharma companies?
- andrewclunn 5y ago
  Speaking as a Republican who has not gotten vaccinated, yes.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - xadhominemx 5y ago
    Before COVID vaccines, Republicans on average trusted pharma way more than Democrats. In general, distrust in pharma is the effect, not the cause, of anti-vax sentiment. I don’t know what’s going on in your specific case. I suspect you are comparing the health risk of vax to not vax, instead of the risk of vax to COVID, which is the comparison you should be making since everyone is going to get omicron eventually, but whatever.
    - andrewclunn 5y ago
      I already got Covid. If you spent a little less time assuming other people's positions (and their motivations), you might find the space to hear them instead.
      - xadhominemx 5y ago
        So it sounds like you didn’t get vaccinated not because you don’t trust pharma but because you already were infected and don’t need the vaccine? In any event, the risks of the vaccine are still probably much lower than the risks of a second infection, especially if you were infected more than a year ago
      - webdood90 5y ago
      - good8675309 5y ago
        Same boat as Andrew. I've already had Omicron. I'm also at a healthy weight, take all recommended supplements and exercise. According to mainstream sources natural immunity is basically the same as the vaccine if not better. The war is over, people just haven't realized it yet. > On the whole, studies found that the efficacy of infection-induced immunity was about the same as what you’d get from a two-dose mRNA vaccine, and sometimes higher. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-omicron-upended-what-we-thought-we-knew-about-natural-immunity/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-omicron-upended-wha...
        xadhominemx 5y ago
        Who hasn’t realized it? The country is fully open and other than mask requirements in schools and public transit, there are essentially no restrictions for vaccinated individuals
        good8675309 5y ago
        > no restrictions for vaccinated individuals We're talking about natural immunity
        spookthesunset 5y ago
        > The country is fully open and other than mask requirements in schools and public transit, there are essentially no restrictions for vaccinated individuals Then it isn't open. Until masks and mass testing are gone, the motor that powers the panic is still running hot and this never ends.
    - peytoncasper 5y ago
      As someone who struggled as well to put myself in the mindset and having just finished reading Empire of Pain which documents the Sackler Family and Purdue's responsibility in the opioid epidemic. It might be worth reading through it to view a mindset that has developed around pharmaceutical companies and doctors in places that were hit the hardest by the opioid epidemic such as mining towns, old industry towns and other rural areas that are predominately Republican. They may vote Republican, but I think its fair to say that its likely not the image that first comes to your mind when talking about pro-business, well off Republicans.
    - vmception 5y ago
      Horseshoe theory Far right and far left reach the same behaviors for different reasons
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - covidsux73 5y ago
- throwaway51235 5y ago
015a 5y ago
Correct, with the key word being "suddenly". Nothing happens suddenly; but its a necessary step toward longer-term healing of trust.
odiroot 5y ago
I do trust pharma companies now, more than ever. They offered us a way out of this mess, after all. On the other hand, I do trust the politicians much less.
- twofornone 5y ago
  They made tens of billions of dollars with zero liability and a rubber stamp from the fda...these are still the same toxic companies that have been sued for billions of dollars and benefitted from decades of lobbying and regulatory capture. They have an army of lawyers on standby on the off chance that someone does find a loophole through which to sue them over adverse effects if they prove to be substantial. Meanwhile the pandemic rages on a year after introducing these vaccines, which have gradually been proven less and less effective than these faceless megacorps repeatedly claimed. Why on earth would you suddenly trust them "more than ever"?
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    I don't trust big pharma but it's not true they got a rubber stamp. Most vaccine projects were called off because they wouldn't get approved or rejected.
- bleuchase 5y ago
  > They offered us a way out of this mess, after all. An unending series of shots, mandates, and other restrictions is “a way out”? What are you smoking?

xadhominemx 5y ago

Do you really think Republicans are not getting vaccinated because they “don’t trust” pharma companies?

andrewclunn 5y ago
Speaking as a Republican who has not gotten vaccinated, yes.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- xadhominemx 5y ago
  Before COVID vaccines, Republicans on average trusted pharma way more than Democrats. In general, distrust in pharma is the effect, not the cause, of anti-vax sentiment. I don’t know what’s going on in your specific case. I suspect you are comparing the health risk of vax to not vax, instead of the risk of vax to COVID, which is the comparison you should be making since everyone is going to get omicron eventually, but whatever.
  - andrewclunn 5y ago
    I already got Covid. If you spent a little less time assuming other people's positions (and their motivations), you might find the space to hear them instead.
    - xadhominemx 5y ago
      So it sounds like you didn’t get vaccinated not because you don’t trust pharma but because you already were infected and don’t need the vaccine? In any event, the risks of the vaccine are still probably much lower than the risks of a second infection, especially if you were infected more than a year ago
    - webdood90 5y ago
    - good8675309 5y ago
      Same boat as Andrew. I've already had Omicron. I'm also at a healthy weight, take all recommended supplements and exercise. According to mainstream sources natural immunity is basically the same as the vaccine if not better. The war is over, people just haven't realized it yet. > On the whole, studies found that the efficacy of infection-induced immunity was about the same as what you’d get from a two-dose mRNA vaccine, and sometimes higher. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-omicron-upended-what-we-thought-we-knew-about-natural-immunity/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-omicron-upended-wha...
      - xadhominemx 5y ago
        Who hasn’t realized it? The country is fully open and other than mask requirements in schools and public transit, there are essentially no restrictions for vaccinated individuals
        good8675309 5y ago
        > no restrictions for vaccinated individuals We're talking about natural immunity
        spookthesunset 5y ago
        > The country is fully open and other than mask requirements in schools and public transit, there are essentially no restrictions for vaccinated individuals Then it isn't open. Until masks and mass testing are gone, the motor that powers the panic is still running hot and this never ends.
  - peytoncasper 5y ago
    As someone who struggled as well to put myself in the mindset and having just finished reading Empire of Pain which documents the Sackler Family and Purdue's responsibility in the opioid epidemic. It might be worth reading through it to view a mindset that has developed around pharmaceutical companies and doctors in places that were hit the hardest by the opioid epidemic such as mining towns, old industry towns and other rural areas that are predominately Republican. They may vote Republican, but I think its fair to say that its likely not the image that first comes to your mind when talking about pro-business, well off Republicans.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Horseshoe theory Far right and far left reach the same behaviors for different reasons
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- covidsux73 5y ago
throwaway51235 5y ago

015a 5y ago

Correct, with the key word being "suddenly". Nothing happens suddenly; but its a necessary step toward longer-term healing of trust.

odiroot 5y ago

I do trust pharma companies now, more than ever. They offered us a way out of this mess, after all. On the other hand, I do trust the politicians much less.

twofornone 5y ago
They made tens of billions of dollars with zero liability and a rubber stamp from the fda...these are still the same toxic companies that have been sued for billions of dollars and benefitted from decades of lobbying and regulatory capture. They have an army of lawyers on standby on the off chance that someone does find a loophole through which to sue them over adverse effects if they prove to be substantial. Meanwhile the pandemic rages on a year after introducing these vaccines, which have gradually been proven less and less effective than these faceless megacorps repeatedly claimed. Why on earth would you suddenly trust them "more than ever"?
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I don't trust big pharma but it's not true they got a rubber stamp. Most vaccine projects were called off because they wouldn't get approved or rejected.
bleuchase 5y ago
> They offered us a way out of this mess, after all. An unending series of shots, mandates, and other restrictions is “a way out”? What are you smoking?