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Florida have had way more deaths after vaccinations were widely available. Also don’t compare to NY… New York is such a unique state due to how it was hit so h

Florida have had way more deaths after vaccinations were widely available. Also don’t compare to NY… New York is such a unique state due to how it was hit so hard right away. Compare Florida and California. Florida has 50% more deaths per capita. That’s a lot!

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
I don't understand how you can say this in good faith. The state by state death rates were and are all over the map. Death rates seem to have far more to do with the prevalence of underlying conditions and some key decisions made regarding vulnerable sub groups early on. In light of this your comment basically boils down to "don't pick a state that has policy I like that's on the high end, pick one on the low end"
- xadhominemx 5y ago
  - yonaguska 5y ago
    Some of the more fringe commentators have been pointing out how the batches of vaccines with higher rates of reported adverse effects are also concentrated in red and purple states. This could be that people are more likely to report adverse reactions in this case, but it is interesting.
    - xadhominemx 5y ago
      Right wing media is completely fixated on VAERS and 99% of non-healthcare workers who do not consume right wing media have never heard of it. So it would stand to reason there is a difference in rate of reporting.
    - kansface 5y ago
      Trump voters (Republicans) are older and less healthy. It could just as well be that demographic has more adverse reactions.
      - yonaguska 5y ago
        But isn't the whole original point of the vaccine to protect those that are older and less healthy? Younger and healthier are at less risk to serious adverse reactions to Covid, having less comorbidities. Besides that, it seems that adverse reactions to the vaccine tend to skew younger, with the risk of heart issues going up, relative to a covid infection, the younger you are.
        peter422 5y ago
        Unless you are under 18 in which the myocarditis numbers are minuscule (due to the lower dose vaccine).
        yonaguska 5y ago
        The lower dosage only started being a thing once the spike in myocarditis was becoming too apparent to deny. Under 18's were eligible for a time to get the full dosage, before they scaled it down. If I remember correctly, Ernesto Ramirez was one of those kids that took a full dose. But yes, you are correct. I still don't think any amount of this vaccine is work the risk for under 18's with no serious health issues. Edit- wow, on a stale thread, my comment was immediately downvoted within seconds of being posted. Is someone using a bot with their account?
bthomas 5y ago
The % of the population over 65 is around 50% higher in Florida too. It's complicated!
anonfornoreason 5y ago
Adjust for median age and your argument is moot
- mike00632 5y ago
  No. The vaccine prevents death. More people are dying in Florida because they are unvaccinated, not because Florida trends older.
  - rory 5y ago
    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but although the vaccine does greatly reduce probability of death, it's still very clear the substantially larger elderly population of Florida has a larger effect on their death rate than the 3.7% lower vaccination rate.
    - mike00632 5y ago
      > ...it's still very clear... 3-4% of the people having a risk of death would explain entirely the ~50% more per capita deaths in Florida.
      - rory 5y ago
        Maybe if California was 93% vaccinated, not 68.5%. That's mathematically nonsense.
  - 3glkjlkjlkg 5y ago
  - kansface 5y ago
    Risk of death from Delta was ~200x higher for the elderly. Obesity added another ~4x. It doesn't matter if vaccines lower that by ~90% because the baseline risk is still there. Florida skewing much, much older has a massive impact in absolute numbers! You can't naively compare Florida stats to CA stats just like you can't compare Utah stats (a very young red state) to CA stats. A more fair comparison is the percentage of the elderly who died in Florida vs CA - the last time I tried to do the math, Florida came out slightly ahead, but you'd probably need a few days for a semi-rigorous comparison. In truth, I don't think you can actually just multiply all of these numbers because they are correlated (and possibly non-linear). Also, the vaccines are less effective in the elderly population.
kansface 5y ago
Florida is 25% old people, CA is not.
- mike00632 5y ago
  All the more reason for Floridians to get vaccinated.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

I don't understand how you can say this in good faith. The state by state death rates were and are all over the map. Death rates seem to have far more to do with the prevalence of underlying conditions and some key decisions made regarding vulnerable sub groups early on. In light of this your comment basically boils down to "don't pick a state that has policy I like that's on the high end, pick one on the low end"

xadhominemx 5y ago
- yonaguska 5y ago
  Some of the more fringe commentators have been pointing out how the batches of vaccines with higher rates of reported adverse effects are also concentrated in red and purple states. This could be that people are more likely to report adverse reactions in this case, but it is interesting.
  - xadhominemx 5y ago
    Right wing media is completely fixated on VAERS and 99% of non-healthcare workers who do not consume right wing media have never heard of it. So it would stand to reason there is a difference in rate of reporting.
  - kansface 5y ago
    Trump voters (Republicans) are older and less healthy. It could just as well be that demographic has more adverse reactions.
    - yonaguska 5y ago
      But isn't the whole original point of the vaccine to protect those that are older and less healthy? Younger and healthier are at less risk to serious adverse reactions to Covid, having less comorbidities. Besides that, it seems that adverse reactions to the vaccine tend to skew younger, with the risk of heart issues going up, relative to a covid infection, the younger you are.
      - peter422 5y ago
        Unless you are under 18 in which the myocarditis numbers are minuscule (due to the lower dose vaccine).
        yonaguska 5y ago
        The lower dosage only started being a thing once the spike in myocarditis was becoming too apparent to deny. Under 18's were eligible for a time to get the full dosage, before they scaled it down. If I remember correctly, Ernesto Ramirez was one of those kids that took a full dose. But yes, you are correct. I still don't think any amount of this vaccine is work the risk for under 18's with no serious health issues. Edit- wow, on a stale thread, my comment was immediately downvoted within seconds of being posted. Is someone using a bot with their account?

bthomas 5y ago

The % of the population over 65 is around 50% higher in Florida too. It's complicated!

anonfornoreason 5y ago

Adjust for median age and your argument is moot

mike00632 5y ago
No. The vaccine prevents death. More people are dying in Florida because they are unvaccinated, not because Florida trends older.
- rory 5y ago
  I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but although the vaccine does greatly reduce probability of death, it's still very clear the substantially larger elderly population of Florida has a larger effect on their death rate than the 3.7% lower vaccination rate.
  - mike00632 5y ago
    > ...it's still very clear... 3-4% of the people having a risk of death would explain entirely the ~50% more per capita deaths in Florida.
    - rory 5y ago
      Maybe if California was 93% vaccinated, not 68.5%. That's mathematically nonsense.
- 3glkjlkjlkg 5y ago
- kansface 5y ago
  Risk of death from Delta was ~200x higher for the elderly. Obesity added another ~4x. It doesn't matter if vaccines lower that by ~90% because the baseline risk is still there. Florida skewing much, much older has a massive impact in absolute numbers! You can't naively compare Florida stats to CA stats just like you can't compare Utah stats (a very young red state) to CA stats. A more fair comparison is the percentage of the elderly who died in Florida vs CA - the last time I tried to do the math, Florida came out slightly ahead, but you'd probably need a few days for a semi-rigorous comparison. In truth, I don't think you can actually just multiply all of these numbers because they are correlated (and possibly non-linear). Also, the vaccines are less effective in the elderly population.

kansface 5y ago

Florida is 25% old people, CA is not.

mike00632 5y ago
All the more reason for Floridians to get vaccinated.