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I'm not so sure about this. Call me a cynic, or even a Libertarian (gasp!) but it is generally not in the nature of government to wind down an apparatus that th

I'm not so sure about this. Call me a cynic, or even a Libertarian (gasp!) but it is generally not in the nature of government to wind down an apparatus that they paid so much for once "the threat" has passed. Now that governments have the infrastructure for requiring and/or showing proof of vaccination, it really isn't a stretch to think they will want to keep that system and have it be readily available for the next pandemic, whatever it may be.

somedude895 5y ago
Also, a lot of government employees' jobs now depend on keeping these systems in place in one form or another...
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  Indeed, and I also sense a lot of Department of Healths at the state level will seek to track the yearly flu-shoot with this system as well. Not necessarily mandating it for public participation, but as a public health measure. The amount of productivity lost due to the seasonal flu is substantial, and the amount of data that can be gleaned from such a database is too tantalizing to ignore.
  - javagram 5y ago
    FYI, departments of health have already been tracking vaccinations in a database for years before COVID. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/iis/resources-refs/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/iis/resources-refs/faq...
- xadhominemx 5y ago
  Not really
- rsynnott 5y ago
  I mean, it probably depends on where you are, but at least here (Ireland) this isn't true. The contact tracing and vaccination apparatus was run largely with people borrowed from other civil service departments, or hired as contractors. When the mass vaccination capability was stood down last year, they went back to their normal work and it took a while to start it back up again for boosters. Did your local government actually hire large numbers of new permanent employees to administer this? This is (a) rather unlikely and (b) very much something you can check.
agency 5y ago
Who is better situated to respond to a pandemic than the state? What is the alternative?
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  I wasn't proposing an alternative, just chiming in that I don't believe the GP's assertion that "It ends with covid vaccines". Mainly because the government now has a powerful tool at its disposal for fighting pandemics and it will not want to stop using it once the threat is finally past us because it has so much utility and expandability for future health crises.
- josefx 5y ago
  In Germany there were at least half a dozen members of parliament caught with their hands in the cookie jar for the money meant to buy masks alone. It would be interesting to see how many more used it to enrich themselves but the decisions enabling them where so hilariously badly written that nearly all the money spend on the masks was wasted. You can write entire lists of how fucked up the governments response was. Government money for tests done under supervision of a professional? The same Dr. listed as on site contact in half the country. Repeated calls to get vaccinated? Government repeatedly blamed Doctors and population but never bought enough vaccines. The government response around here can be summed up as corrupt incompetents fucking up the economy while playing the blame game. I could not think of a group objectively less qualified to respond.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >The government response around here can be summed up as corrupt incompetents fucking up the economy while playing the blame game. I could not think of a group objectively less qualified to respond. Assuming you live in a country with democratic (small 'd') institutions, you elected those folks. If they're corrupt and/or incompetent, that's on you and your fellow countrymen, no?
    - josefx 5y ago
      It is mostly the same parties sitting in government as back in Weimar when they helped Hitler ban the biggest competition. I am quite sure some of them even date back to our last Kaiser (not the soccer one). What is a single person to do against political parties that historically should be considered complicit in starting and losing two World Wars and survived without having their ideologies purged?
lern_too_spel 5y ago
There is lots of precedent for winding down wartime laws. Libertarians think governments want to be authoritarian for the sake of being authoritarian, but that is not how democracy works.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  Let me know when the USA PATRIOT act finally expires (without pieces being made into permanent laws).
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    Many parts of the USA PATRIOT Act have expired. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/31/411044789/live-blog-facing-midnight-deadline-the-senate-debates-parts-of-the-patriot-act https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/31/411044789... Other parts have been modified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Freedom_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Freedom_Act

somedude895 5y ago

Also, a lot of government employees' jobs now depend on keeping these systems in place in one form or another...

BitwiseFool 5y ago
Indeed, and I also sense a lot of Department of Healths at the state level will seek to track the yearly flu-shoot with this system as well. Not necessarily mandating it for public participation, but as a public health measure. The amount of productivity lost due to the seasonal flu is substantial, and the amount of data that can be gleaned from such a database is too tantalizing to ignore.
- javagram 5y ago
  FYI, departments of health have already been tracking vaccinations in a database for years before COVID. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/iis/resources-refs/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/iis/resources-refs/faq...
xadhominemx 5y ago
Not really
rsynnott 5y ago
I mean, it probably depends on where you are, but at least here (Ireland) this isn't true. The contact tracing and vaccination apparatus was run largely with people borrowed from other civil service departments, or hired as contractors. When the mass vaccination capability was stood down last year, they went back to their normal work and it took a while to start it back up again for boosters. Did your local government actually hire large numbers of new permanent employees to administer this? This is (a) rather unlikely and (b) very much something you can check.

agency 5y ago

Who is better situated to respond to a pandemic than the state? What is the alternative?

BitwiseFool 5y ago
I wasn't proposing an alternative, just chiming in that I don't believe the GP's assertion that "It ends with covid vaccines". Mainly because the government now has a powerful tool at its disposal for fighting pandemics and it will not want to stop using it once the threat is finally past us because it has so much utility and expandability for future health crises.
josefx 5y ago
In Germany there were at least half a dozen members of parliament caught with their hands in the cookie jar for the money meant to buy masks alone. It would be interesting to see how many more used it to enrich themselves but the decisions enabling them where so hilariously badly written that nearly all the money spend on the masks was wasted. You can write entire lists of how fucked up the governments response was. Government money for tests done under supervision of a professional? The same Dr. listed as on site contact in half the country. Repeated calls to get vaccinated? Government repeatedly blamed Doctors and population but never bought enough vaccines. The government response around here can be summed up as corrupt incompetents fucking up the economy while playing the blame game. I could not think of a group objectively less qualified to respond.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >The government response around here can be summed up as corrupt incompetents fucking up the economy while playing the blame game. I could not think of a group objectively less qualified to respond. Assuming you live in a country with democratic (small 'd') institutions, you elected those folks. If they're corrupt and/or incompetent, that's on you and your fellow countrymen, no?
  - josefx 5y ago
    It is mostly the same parties sitting in government as back in Weimar when they helped Hitler ban the biggest competition. I am quite sure some of them even date back to our last Kaiser (not the soccer one). What is a single person to do against political parties that historically should be considered complicit in starting and losing two World Wars and survived without having their ideologies purged?

lern_too_spel 5y ago

There is lots of precedent for winding down wartime laws. Libertarians think governments want to be authoritarian for the sake of being authoritarian, but that is not how democracy works.

jaywalk 5y ago
Let me know when the USA PATRIOT act finally expires (without pieces being made into permanent laws).
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Many parts of the USA PATRIOT Act have expired. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/31/411044789/live-blog-facing-midnight-deadline-the-senate-debates-parts-of-the-patriot-act https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/31/411044789... Other parts have been modified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Freedom_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Freedom_Act