4 ms·

Millions of people died, there's no victory.

cies 5y ago
Out of 8 billion that's not very impressive. Millions die in years without "pandemic". (quoted because in the past that mend >1% infection-deaths, this was <1%, yet still a pandemic).
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  Yeah and I don't call those victories either. We lost and need to do better when it happens again.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Maybe we should outlaw tobacco, limit people's sugar intake via daily glucose testing, and ban alcohol while we're at it?
    - cies 5y ago
      I think people should be able to choose their vices. Suicide (slow or fast) is by it self not immoral to me.
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      Tobacco and sugar aren't contagious. If you want to continue down this path of false equivalence, many places have essentially outlawed second-hand smoke.
      - encryptluks2 5y ago
        And vaccines are supposed to protect you, so if people aren't allowed to make their own choices then might as well force them to make whatever groupthink thinks is the best for them.
        micromacrofoot 5y ago
        Vaccines are also a public health measure, like smoking restrictions. You can't choose to keep a petri dish of ebola around either. You are subject to "groupthink" unless you self-sustain in the woods somewhere. We call it "society." Many things you do every day are a result of "groupthink." The pipes that deliver the water, the social contracts that say you need to wear pants.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        Smoking restrictions are not permanent like forcing someone to get an experimental shot. The groupthink you are supporting also caused racism, wars, poverty and has created a mental health crisis. Youth suicide is at an all time high.
        micromacrofoot 5y ago
        The vaccine isn't permanent, as we've very quickly discovered. Death is. How would you have done things differently to avoid racism, wars, poverty, and mental health crises? Do you think the suicide rate would have been half as high if twice as many people died from the virus? These are not easy questions to answer. I certainly don't know, and I don't expect you to. It's very easy to act like you know better in hindsight. The only non "groupthink" way to approach this pandemic would have been to do nothing. There's not a datapoint on the planet that supports doing nothing. Everything else requires some societal "groupthink" effort.
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        Well for starters rather than force mandate/isolate everyone... people could have been given the option to isolate if they wanted to. Instead we had governors closing down beaches and hiking trails while getting caught fine dining in large groups in Napa. We've also determined that obesity and other contributing factors regarding health have a significant impact on the effects of COVID-19. If anything, the hypocrites have made things worse at times by preventing access to activities that would improve health and rewarding people getting vaccinated from an old variant with free beer, donuts and fast food.
  - cies 5y ago
    I dont have a problem with a natural cause "shaking out some dead branches". That's how things go. Someone else notes tobacco. And that's it, if we are so serious about extending human life, why not focus on lifestyle diseases? And even with that focus I think people should be able to choose their own vices (as long as it does not harm others).
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      We (the US, but also others) knew this virus was coming, and completely bungled the response on multiple occasions. Lots of people died that didn't have to die. We spend a lot of time and money avoiding lifestyle diseases. A virus isn't a lifestyle disease.
      - cies 5y ago
        > A virus isn't a lifestyle disease. No it but it seems to kill those that have 'm LS diseases underlying. > We spend a lot of time and money avoiding lifestyle diseases. I never saw lockdowns on McD and Dunkin'Dos :) And I'm no in favor of spending to stop diseases. I feel better about heavy taxes on unhealthy stuff, and tax breaks for healthy stuff. (While the other way around happens all over the glove with life stock and feed subsidies).
tootie 5y ago
I mean, we declared victory at the end of WWII. No one comes out from a battle unscathed.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  A year before becoming involved in WWII, Neville Chamberlain, the PM of the UK said: "In war, whichever side may call itself the victor, there are no winners, but all are losers." Call it a victory if you must, but looking back at the past 2 years there were very few winners.

cies 5y ago

Out of 8 billion that's not very impressive. Millions die in years without "pandemic". (quoted because in the past that mend >1% infection-deaths, this was <1%, yet still a pandemic).

micromacrofoot 5y ago
Yeah and I don't call those victories either. We lost and need to do better when it happens again.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Maybe we should outlaw tobacco, limit people's sugar intake via daily glucose testing, and ban alcohol while we're at it?
  - cies 5y ago
    I think people should be able to choose their vices. Suicide (slow or fast) is by it self not immoral to me.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    Tobacco and sugar aren't contagious. If you want to continue down this path of false equivalence, many places have essentially outlawed second-hand smoke.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      And vaccines are supposed to protect you, so if people aren't allowed to make their own choices then might as well force them to make whatever groupthink thinks is the best for them.
      - micromacrofoot 5y ago
        Vaccines are also a public health measure, like smoking restrictions. You can't choose to keep a petri dish of ebola around either. You are subject to "groupthink" unless you self-sustain in the woods somewhere. We call it "society." Many things you do every day are a result of "groupthink." The pipes that deliver the water, the social contracts that say you need to wear pants.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        Smoking restrictions are not permanent like forcing someone to get an experimental shot. The groupthink you are supporting also caused racism, wars, poverty and has created a mental health crisis. Youth suicide is at an all time high.
        micromacrofoot 5y ago
        The vaccine isn't permanent, as we've very quickly discovered. Death is. How would you have done things differently to avoid racism, wars, poverty, and mental health crises? Do you think the suicide rate would have been half as high if twice as many people died from the virus? These are not easy questions to answer. I certainly don't know, and I don't expect you to. It's very easy to act like you know better in hindsight. The only non "groupthink" way to approach this pandemic would have been to do nothing. There's not a datapoint on the planet that supports doing nothing. Everything else requires some societal "groupthink" effort.
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        Well for starters rather than force mandate/isolate everyone... people could have been given the option to isolate if they wanted to. Instead we had governors closing down beaches and hiking trails while getting caught fine dining in large groups in Napa. We've also determined that obesity and other contributing factors regarding health have a significant impact on the effects of COVID-19. If anything, the hypocrites have made things worse at times by preventing access to activities that would improve health and rewarding people getting vaccinated from an old variant with free beer, donuts and fast food.
- cies 5y ago
  I dont have a problem with a natural cause "shaking out some dead branches". That's how things go. Someone else notes tobacco. And that's it, if we are so serious about extending human life, why not focus on lifestyle diseases? And even with that focus I think people should be able to choose their own vices (as long as it does not harm others).
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    We (the US, but also others) knew this virus was coming, and completely bungled the response on multiple occasions. Lots of people died that didn't have to die. We spend a lot of time and money avoiding lifestyle diseases. A virus isn't a lifestyle disease.
    - cies 5y ago
      > A virus isn't a lifestyle disease. No it but it seems to kill those that have 'm LS diseases underlying. > We spend a lot of time and money avoiding lifestyle diseases. I never saw lockdowns on McD and Dunkin'Dos :) And I'm no in favor of spending to stop diseases. I feel better about heavy taxes on unhealthy stuff, and tax breaks for healthy stuff. (While the other way around happens all over the glove with life stock and feed subsidies).

tootie 5y ago

I mean, we declared victory at the end of WWII. No one comes out from a battle unscathed.

micromacrofoot 5y ago
A year before becoming involved in WWII, Neville Chamberlain, the PM of the UK said: "In war, whichever side may call itself the victor, there are no winners, but all are losers." Call it a victory if you must, but looking back at the past 2 years there were very few winners.