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In countries like that I just don't buy anything. Life is too short for haggling.

koolba 5y ago
Haggling is fun. I’m convinced the modern aversion to haggling in first world countries is because people grow up avoiding all direct confrontation. They think it’s somehow how rude to disagree with someone about the price of the article at hand. The next level of it is when they justify this “politeness” by claiming that haggling is inefficient or a waste of time.
- cookieswumchorr 5y ago
  in the west buying stuff usually requires no human interaction at all, even the cashiers are getting replaced by automatic checkout. But, on the other hand, you do need negotiation skills, be it in career, private live, or elsewhere. So maybe we all just need to do a year of backpacking and learn how to haggle
  - pbourke 5y ago
    > in the west buying stuff usually requires no human interaction at all And then you step foot in a car dealership, and you might as well be in a souk
    - cookieswumchorr 5y ago
      yup, stuff like cars, or, god forbid, houses, are not only expensive AF, but the buying requires skills most people never had a chance to practice. fuck it, I'm cycling to save the planet and my nerves
- goodpoint 5y ago
  When all sellers and customers haggle it creates a zero-sum game where nothing useful is achieved and everybody is wasting their time. Fun when you do it once, not so fun when is expected every day. A similar zero-sum game is advertising. Yet, some cultures look down on haggling and embrace advertising with open arms...
  - twox2 5y ago
    If you look at dollar and time amounts, all financial interactions are pretty much zero-sum.
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      The transaction itself is not zero sum. The existence of the transaction itself is proof that both parties value what they received more than what they gave away (otherwise they would not have transacted). The waste of time is having to haggle to arrive at the price, when the price could have been published. It benefits nobody, because that's the price the transaction would have happened at anyway. But we have to do a whole song and dance beforehand anyway, every single time.
      - Tyr42 5y ago
        I mean, why do coupons exist? They mail you stuff and you bring it to a store and the price is cheaper? Extra effort all around? But price discrimination improves cashflow. And these merchants can do the same thing as haggling with less paper waste and on the spot.
      - twox2 5y ago
        > It benefits nobody, because that's the price the transaction would have happened at anyway. But this is not true. Haggling is price discovery. Either way, I think this is mostly a cultural thing that's lost on a lot of westerners.
        dahfizz 5y ago
        > Haggling is price discovery Yes, the issue is that the price does not need to be discovered. The seller knows the "real" price, and is just hopping to screw over the buyer.
        nybble41 5y ago
        > The seller knows the "real" price… The seller knows the customary price, and the lowest price they would be willing to accept. The "real" price is whatever the buyer and seller agree on for a particular trade. Price discovery is an ongoing process which isn't finished just because you've determined an average price for past trades. The buyer isn't losing out unless there's actual fraud involved, even if they could have potentially negotiated a better price. And really, we're mostly talking about trades between individuals and small businesses (who may also be individuals)—why should all the surplus value represented by the difference between the highest and lowest prices acceptable to both parties go to the buyer, and not the seller?
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Even if haggling is fun for you, it is still a big expenditure of time and effort that accomplishes nothing. There's simply no reason for it to exist.
  - malwarebytess 5y ago
    Builds relationships, can arrive at an optimal price, involves human contact. It doesn't take that long either. There are positives even to things you deem useless.
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      I can't imagine how someone trying to overcharge me would help build a relationship between me and the seller.
    - Loughla 5y ago
      >Builds relationships I don't get this one.
      - themeiguoren 5y ago
        Through the conversation, you learn the idiosyncrasies of the other person. In a culture where haggling is normal, their “style” gives you insight into their personality and how they might act in other scenarios. And it identifies you as an insider or outsider to the culture. At the very least, you’ve learned their name and face. I also hate haggling, and since I’m not from a culture where it’s a norm I can’t use it to read deeper into a person. (Or them into me.) But it’s not too hard to imagine how it helps to build relationships.
  - kritiko 5y ago
    Negotiating price is extremely common in corporate environments. If I had to guess what it accomplishes, I’d say building a relationship with your trading partner.
    - dahfizz 5y ago
- emptyfile 5y ago
  100% agree with you, and I don't want anything resembling confrontation when I'm buying souvenirs on vacation. Couldn't care less if its rude or polite or whatever. Go ahead and haggle if its fun for you.
  - snovv_crash 5y ago
    Just pay the initial asking price then?
- TheGigaChad 5y ago

Haggling is fun. I’m convinced the modern aversion to haggling in first world countries is because people grow up avoiding all direct confrontation. They think it’s somehow how rude to disagree with someone about the price of the article at hand. The next level of it is when they justify this “politeness” by claiming that haggling is inefficient or a waste of time.

cookieswumchorr 5y ago
in the west buying stuff usually requires no human interaction at all, even the cashiers are getting replaced by automatic checkout. But, on the other hand, you do need negotiation skills, be it in career, private live, or elsewhere. So maybe we all just need to do a year of backpacking and learn how to haggle
- pbourke 5y ago
  > in the west buying stuff usually requires no human interaction at all And then you step foot in a car dealership, and you might as well be in a souk
  - cookieswumchorr 5y ago
    yup, stuff like cars, or, god forbid, houses, are not only expensive AF, but the buying requires skills most people never had a chance to practice. fuck it, I'm cycling to save the planet and my nerves
goodpoint 5y ago
When all sellers and customers haggle it creates a zero-sum game where nothing useful is achieved and everybody is wasting their time. Fun when you do it once, not so fun when is expected every day. A similar zero-sum game is advertising. Yet, some cultures look down on haggling and embrace advertising with open arms...
- twox2 5y ago
  If you look at dollar and time amounts, all financial interactions are pretty much zero-sum.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    The transaction itself is not zero sum. The existence of the transaction itself is proof that both parties value what they received more than what they gave away (otherwise they would not have transacted). The waste of time is having to haggle to arrive at the price, when the price could have been published. It benefits nobody, because that's the price the transaction would have happened at anyway. But we have to do a whole song and dance beforehand anyway, every single time.
    - Tyr42 5y ago
      I mean, why do coupons exist? They mail you stuff and you bring it to a store and the price is cheaper? Extra effort all around? But price discrimination improves cashflow. And these merchants can do the same thing as haggling with less paper waste and on the spot.
    - twox2 5y ago
      > It benefits nobody, because that's the price the transaction would have happened at anyway. But this is not true. Haggling is price discovery. Either way, I think this is mostly a cultural thing that's lost on a lot of westerners.
      - dahfizz 5y ago
        > Haggling is price discovery Yes, the issue is that the price does not need to be discovered. The seller knows the "real" price, and is just hopping to screw over the buyer.
        nybble41 5y ago
        > The seller knows the "real" price… The seller knows the customary price, and the lowest price they would be willing to accept. The "real" price is whatever the buyer and seller agree on for a particular trade. Price discovery is an ongoing process which isn't finished just because you've determined an average price for past trades. The buyer isn't losing out unless there's actual fraud involved, even if they could have potentially negotiated a better price. And really, we're mostly talking about trades between individuals and small businesses (who may also be individuals)—why should all the surplus value represented by the difference between the highest and lowest prices acceptable to both parties go to the buyer, and not the seller?
dahfizz 5y ago
Even if haggling is fun for you, it is still a big expenditure of time and effort that accomplishes nothing. There's simply no reason for it to exist.
- malwarebytess 5y ago
  Builds relationships, can arrive at an optimal price, involves human contact. It doesn't take that long either. There are positives even to things you deem useless.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    I can't imagine how someone trying to overcharge me would help build a relationship between me and the seller.
  - Loughla 5y ago
    >Builds relationships I don't get this one.
    - themeiguoren 5y ago
      Through the conversation, you learn the idiosyncrasies of the other person. In a culture where haggling is normal, their “style” gives you insight into their personality and how they might act in other scenarios. And it identifies you as an insider or outsider to the culture. At the very least, you’ve learned their name and face. I also hate haggling, and since I’m not from a culture where it’s a norm I can’t use it to read deeper into a person. (Or them into me.) But it’s not too hard to imagine how it helps to build relationships.
- kritiko 5y ago
  Negotiating price is extremely common in corporate environments. If I had to guess what it accomplishes, I’d say building a relationship with your trading partner.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
emptyfile 5y ago
100% agree with you, and I don't want anything resembling confrontation when I'm buying souvenirs on vacation. Couldn't care less if its rude or polite or whatever. Go ahead and haggle if its fun for you.
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  Just pay the initial asking price then?
TheGigaChad 5y ago