5 ms·

Anecdata : My wife's parents worked in Kenya for a few years in the 70s and they where advised that having a maid and a nanny was expected. (we are Swedish)

miniwark 5y ago
I have heard of the same in Ethiopia around the 90's. For white worker it was expected to: - rent a house - hire a house guardian - hire at last one maid - hire a chauffeur if you own a car It was also recommended than they come form the local neighborhood. It was a social norm, and if you do not do it you can expect the local policemen to "fine you" every time you take the car, the food cost to be x5 the price (or more), and many other additional costs and life inconvenience than just made more easy and cheaper to just hire the people. That said the work was real. A good chauffeur, will negotiate prices and bribes for you, and recommend you the good places. The house guardian was also your speaker with the neighborhood committee (with was in fact a government organization). (I will avoid the more complicated subject of the maid...) This was OK if you where a man, a couple or a family. If you where a young woman... good luck with this. There was a way to avoid all this: living in a flat in the city center and use taxis. (For Addis Ababa this may not be true anymore because the city was changed a lot from the big shantytown it was then)
- mmmmmbop 5y ago
  > (I will avoid the more complicated subject of the maid...) I'm really curious now. Why is the maid a more complicated subject?
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    Given our history, I was assuming there was some expectation that duties might also include requests of a sexual nature. I really hope that's not the case. But we (rich white people) don't exactly have a good track record in these types of situation. :(
    - tagoregrtst 5y ago
      No need to racially charge it - sexually exploiting servants is a universal. Curiously, you said “rich white people” forgoing the one prejudice that actually does predict sexual exploitation - men!
      - hnlmorg 5y ago
        > No need to racially charge it - sexually exploiting servants is a universal. The topic of race was already raised in the grandparent post, I quote (emphasis mine): > I have heard of the same in Ethiopia around the 90's. For white worker it was expected to: While I'm sure exploitation happens in most cultures I'm mostly familiar with it happening in white culture and given that context was already specified and my education being based on that context I decided to keep my reply specific to that context which I already knew. Sorry if I offended anyone -- I just figured being a white male myself it was more offensive to drag other cultures into the discussion when they were previously outside the scope. > Curiously, you said “rich white people” forgoing the one prejudice that actually does predict sexual exploitation - men! I didn't need to specify men because that context was already defined in the post I was responding to. To quote the GP again: > This was OK if you where a man, a couple or a family. If you where a young woman... good luck with this. Frankly though, moaning about other cultures doing it too feels a little like trying to pull others down so we don't look so bad instead of acknowledging our own failings. Maybe that's an uncomfortable opinion for people to hear but as the saying goes "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
      - throwaway2037 5y ago
        Yes, it is sadly common in Hongkong and Saudia Arabia with domestic helpers. I have heard numerous first-hands accounts about it.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      "But we (rich white people) don't exactly have a good track record in these types of situation" I do not think that behavior is or was restricted to skin color.
    - ejb999 5y ago
  - __alexs 5y ago
    Because they are sex workers.
  - 323 5y ago
    Not all of them are free, some of them are kidnapped by traffickers from the country side. https://www.economist.com/baobab/2012/04/24/maid-in-ethiopia https://www.economist.com/baobab/2012/04/24/maid-in-ethiopia
  - fxtentacle 5y ago
    At least in Japan, some maid services are more like cosplaying escorts. https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/100650 https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/100650 https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/10/national/u-n-officials-remarks-girls-compensated-dating-japan-angers-tokyo/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/10/national/u-n-of...
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      Not at all. There are cosplay cafe' where employees cosplay whatever role or character and there are real housekeeping services. Japanese people can tell the difference between reality and cosplay.
      - radicalbyte 5y ago
        > Japanese people can tell the difference between reality and cosplay. That quote would look good in a meme.
  - miniwark 5y ago
    Some comment have given a somewhat correct reply: Some of the maid where indeed expected to also do "night duties" if asked. It was not a racial power stuff. It's was more a problem with a sort of "cultural prostitution" witch was everywhere in Ethiopia. The maids where still primary maids and not prostitute, and to be fair, the same problem also did exist in Europe at the time of Agatha Christie (How many European maid had become pregnant and then fired ?). I thinks than it's now worst than in the 90's because Ethiopia had sadly become a tourist sex place since then. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Ethiopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Ethiopia

miniwark 5y ago

I have heard of the same in Ethiopia around the 90's. For white worker it was expected to: - rent a house - hire a house guardian - hire at last one maid - hire a chauffeur if you own a car It was also recommended than they come form the local neighborhood. It was a social norm, and if you do not do it you can expect the local policemen to "fine you" every time you take the car, the food cost to be x5 the price (or more), and many other additional costs and life inconvenience than just made more easy and cheaper to just hire the people. That said the work was real. A good chauffeur, will negotiate prices and bribes for you, and recommend you the good places. The house guardian was also your speaker with the neighborhood committee (with was in fact a government organization). (I will avoid the more complicated subject of the maid...) This was OK if you where a man, a couple or a family. If you where a young woman... good luck with this. There was a way to avoid all this: living in a flat in the city center and use taxis. (For Addis Ababa this may not be true anymore because the city was changed a lot from the big shantytown it was then)

mmmmmbop 5y ago
> (I will avoid the more complicated subject of the maid...) I'm really curious now. Why is the maid a more complicated subject?
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  Given our history, I was assuming there was some expectation that duties might also include requests of a sexual nature. I really hope that's not the case. But we (rich white people) don't exactly have a good track record in these types of situation. :(
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    No need to racially charge it - sexually exploiting servants is a universal. Curiously, you said “rich white people” forgoing the one prejudice that actually does predict sexual exploitation - men!
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      > No need to racially charge it - sexually exploiting servants is a universal. The topic of race was already raised in the grandparent post, I quote (emphasis mine): > I have heard of the same in Ethiopia around the 90's. For white worker it was expected to: While I'm sure exploitation happens in most cultures I'm mostly familiar with it happening in white culture and given that context was already specified and my education being based on that context I decided to keep my reply specific to that context which I already knew. Sorry if I offended anyone -- I just figured being a white male myself it was more offensive to drag other cultures into the discussion when they were previously outside the scope. > Curiously, you said “rich white people” forgoing the one prejudice that actually does predict sexual exploitation - men! I didn't need to specify men because that context was already defined in the post I was responding to. To quote the GP again: > This was OK if you where a man, a couple or a family. If you where a young woman... good luck with this. Frankly though, moaning about other cultures doing it too feels a little like trying to pull others down so we don't look so bad instead of acknowledging our own failings. Maybe that's an uncomfortable opinion for people to hear but as the saying goes "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
    - throwaway2037 5y ago
      Yes, it is sadly common in Hongkong and Saudia Arabia with domestic helpers. I have heard numerous first-hands accounts about it.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "But we (rich white people) don't exactly have a good track record in these types of situation" I do not think that behavior is or was restricted to skin color.
  - ejb999 5y ago
- __alexs 5y ago
  Because they are sex workers.
- 323 5y ago
  Not all of them are free, some of them are kidnapped by traffickers from the country side. https://www.economist.com/baobab/2012/04/24/maid-in-ethiopia https://www.economist.com/baobab/2012/04/24/maid-in-ethiopia
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  At least in Japan, some maid services are more like cosplaying escorts. https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/100650 https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/100650 https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/10/national/u-n-officials-remarks-girls-compensated-dating-japan-angers-tokyo/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/10/national/u-n-of...
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    Not at all. There are cosplay cafe' where employees cosplay whatever role or character and there are real housekeeping services. Japanese people can tell the difference between reality and cosplay.
    - radicalbyte 5y ago
      > Japanese people can tell the difference between reality and cosplay. That quote would look good in a meme.
- miniwark 5y ago
  Some comment have given a somewhat correct reply: Some of the maid where indeed expected to also do "night duties" if asked. It was not a racial power stuff. It's was more a problem with a sort of "cultural prostitution" witch was everywhere in Ethiopia. The maids where still primary maids and not prostitute, and to be fair, the same problem also did exist in Europe at the time of Agatha Christie (How many European maid had become pregnant and then fired ?). I thinks than it's now worst than in the 90's because Ethiopia had sadly become a tourist sex place since then. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Ethiopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Ethiopia