4 ms·

> But he found that, since the merchants charged people by their social class, The same thing happens in developed countries like the US too. It's just done a

by danans 5y ago

> But he found that, since the merchants charged people by their social class, The same thing happens in developed countries like the US too. It's just done a different way: We have high end grocery stores and low end grocery stores, and ones in the middle, each catering more or less to different social classes. If you are really low on the totem pole, you may have no grocery store. Although they differ in the quality of food they offer, there is significant overlap also, which is priced differently.

wbobeirne 5y ago
I get what you're going for, but this simply isn't comparable. I pretty much can't walk into the same store and purchase the same item but be quoted a different price than anyone else. There are rich areas and poor areas, touristy areas and off-the-beaten-path areas. But in US retail you won't find sellers discriminate based solely on the look of the customer in 99% of cases.
- alasdair_ 5y ago
  > I pretty much can't walk into the same store and purchase the same item but be quoted a different price than anyone else. The USA only does this for trivial unnecessary frivolities like medical care.
- lodovic 5y ago
  Depends on the goods; in normal retail, surely, but if you walk into a used car store, a pawn shop, or try to get insurance, YMMV.
- fvdessen 5y ago
  When I was in the USA a few years ago with an hispanic looking friend, he was often offered a steep discount at the various shops and restaurants. Often enough that we would ask him to do all the shopping. This happened to us in multiple cities (NY/Miami/SF)
  - gavinray 5y ago
    I live in Miami and when going out with Cuban friends, have never seen this. But I also don't go out often, and if I do, it's just to eat usually.
  - CSMastermind 5y ago
    I've been all over the US and lived in two of the cities you mentioned. Dated and been friends with many different hispanic people and I've never seen this happen. That's true of my friends and romantic partners of all races by the way. I can't think of a single time I've seen someone be given a racial discount here. There were a few times at restaurants and grocery stores where they had access to items I wouldn't have, but that almost always came from speaking the right language and knowing what to ask for. I'm sure those places would have been equally happy to accommodate me if I know what to say. I do have stories of those friends and romantic partners being discriminated against a few times.
    - fvdessen 5y ago
      Well we found it all the more surprising because our hispanic looking friend didn't even speak Spanish. But that's what happened. Maybe they mistook him for an illegal migrant ? In a similar vein, We also noticed that when our white looking friend was not with us, people started to offer us drugs in the streets, which we found hilarious.
- danans 5y ago
  All I said is that class based pricing exists in the US, but it works via physical separation rather than directly based on how the customer looks. That physical separation is maintained by the actual physical class separation along policed municipal boundaries that exists in the US. Developing societies instead use walls with barbed wire and hired security for that function. That said, there are pretty strong correlations between the tier of the grocery store and the appearance of their average customer. And yes, there are wealthier but frugal people who shop at cheaper stores, but they are an exception.
nyokodo 5y ago
> If you are really low on the totem pole, you may have no grocery store. The lowest would be the dollar stores, but then you have food stamps, and food banks which are like free supermarkets in a sense. If you can’t get to them then there’s soup kitchens and quite a few charities that will bring food to you. We can definitely fill in more cracks but there are a lot of available food sources in America.
- howLongHowLong 5y ago
  I'm assuming you've never tried to maintain a nutritious diet through dollar stores and food banks before. It's very difficult. Additionally, when you take into account special packaging made for dollar stores, some of the trash food is actually more expensive than healthy items available at the "rich" store.
bradknowles 5y ago
Hospitals in Belgium charge you by your income level. We know this because my wife had to be briefly hospitalized in Brussels during the nearly 8 years we lived there, and the hospital made it very clear to us that we were being charged in this way. Ironically, we still paid less out of pocket for that week-long hospital stay without insurance than we would have paid for a single day hospital stay here in the US with insurance. So, overall, we were pretty happy about the amount we were paying.
- CSMastermind 5y ago
  > Ironically, we still paid less out of pocket for that week-long hospital stay without insurance than we would have paid for a single day hospital stay here in the US with insurance. I'm curious about this one. I've been to the hospital one time in my adult life. Stayed overnight, got multiple tests including an Xray and an MRI. Got medication, etc. Having heard the horror stories I was ready for a big bill. It was like $140. It was cheaper than a hotel room would have been. I can't tell if I just have exceptionally good insurance or if people who make a big deal about the US healthcare system are leaving out critical details.
  - throwaway2037 5y ago
    I am confused by this seriously down-voted post. Are you based in the US visiting a local hospital saying that you received (very!) fair pricing for an MRI and X-ray? If not, can you please explain?
    - CSMastermind 5y ago
      I am, I'm a US citizen and my one major interaction with the US healthcare system seemed like I received great treatment for a completely fair price.
  - rndgermandude 5y ago
    Google search tells me that in 2020 the median deductible (out of pocket pay before health insurance takes over costs) was between $1,418 and $2,295 depending largely on the company size, with "platinum" plans median of only $95 and "bronze" plans median of $6,992[1]. The cost of an MRI (starting at $400, going way up depending on what was MRI'ed)[2], xray (starting at $100)[3] and an overnight stay (around $2600 non-ICU [4]) would be at least $3100 alone if you had to pay everything out of pocket, not accounting for any additional costs (the unspecified "additional tests" you mentioned, for example, or things you haven't explicitly mentioned but may still used like an ambulance ride, etc). Of course, this is recent prices, and the prices may have varied when you actually were in hospital, and it is my understanding that prices both for health care services and procedures, and health insurance can vary widely depending on the region and the providers involved in the US. But my google-fu let's me conclude that you indeed extremely likely had a health insurance plan at "platinum" level, far better than what most of your fellow citizens in the US enjoy. Somebody with a plan near the "median deductible" would have paid that median deductible of more than $1400 in full, or around 10x what you had to pay, somebody unlucky enough to be on a "bronze" plan might have had to pay the full amount (or at least around 7 grand), and there are about 31 million people in the US without health insurance[5] who would have had to pay in full. (Please note that I, as somebody who never experienced the US health care system, can thus only provide an outside view based on what I heard from people I know and in the media, and googled) [1] https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-health-insurance-cost-4774184 https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-health-insurance-... [2] https://www.itnonline.com/content/mri-costs https://www.itnonline.com/content/mri-costs [3] https://health.costhelper.com/x-rays.html https://health.costhelper.com/x-rays.html [4] https://www.debt.org/medical/hospital-surgery-costs/ https://www.debt.org/medical/hospital-surgery-costs/ [5] https://www.statista.com/statistics/200955/americans-without-health-insurance/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/200955/americans-without...

by danans 5y ago

wbobeirne 5y ago

I get what you're going for, but this simply isn't comparable. I pretty much can't walk into the same store and purchase the same item but be quoted a different price than anyone else. There are rich areas and poor areas, touristy areas and off-the-beaten-path areas. But in US retail you won't find sellers discriminate based solely on the look of the customer in 99% of cases.

alasdair_ 5y ago
> I pretty much can't walk into the same store and purchase the same item but be quoted a different price than anyone else. The USA only does this for trivial unnecessary frivolities like medical care.
lodovic 5y ago
Depends on the goods; in normal retail, surely, but if you walk into a used car store, a pawn shop, or try to get insurance, YMMV.
fvdessen 5y ago
When I was in the USA a few years ago with an hispanic looking friend, he was often offered a steep discount at the various shops and restaurants. Often enough that we would ask him to do all the shopping. This happened to us in multiple cities (NY/Miami/SF)
- gavinray 5y ago
  I live in Miami and when going out with Cuban friends, have never seen this. But I also don't go out often, and if I do, it's just to eat usually.
- CSMastermind 5y ago
  I've been all over the US and lived in two of the cities you mentioned. Dated and been friends with many different hispanic people and I've never seen this happen. That's true of my friends and romantic partners of all races by the way. I can't think of a single time I've seen someone be given a racial discount here. There were a few times at restaurants and grocery stores where they had access to items I wouldn't have, but that almost always came from speaking the right language and knowing what to ask for. I'm sure those places would have been equally happy to accommodate me if I know what to say. I do have stories of those friends and romantic partners being discriminated against a few times.
  - fvdessen 5y ago
    Well we found it all the more surprising because our hispanic looking friend didn't even speak Spanish. But that's what happened. Maybe they mistook him for an illegal migrant ? In a similar vein, We also noticed that when our white looking friend was not with us, people started to offer us drugs in the streets, which we found hilarious.
danans 5y ago
All I said is that class based pricing exists in the US, but it works via physical separation rather than directly based on how the customer looks. That physical separation is maintained by the actual physical class separation along policed municipal boundaries that exists in the US. Developing societies instead use walls with barbed wire and hired security for that function. That said, there are pretty strong correlations between the tier of the grocery store and the appearance of their average customer. And yes, there are wealthier but frugal people who shop at cheaper stores, but they are an exception.

nyokodo 5y ago

> If you are really low on the totem pole, you may have no grocery store. The lowest would be the dollar stores, but then you have food stamps, and food banks which are like free supermarkets in a sense. If you can’t get to them then there’s soup kitchens and quite a few charities that will bring food to you. We can definitely fill in more cracks but there are a lot of available food sources in America.

howLongHowLong 5y ago
I'm assuming you've never tried to maintain a nutritious diet through dollar stores and food banks before. It's very difficult. Additionally, when you take into account special packaging made for dollar stores, some of the trash food is actually more expensive than healthy items available at the "rich" store.

bradknowles 5y ago

Hospitals in Belgium charge you by your income level. We know this because my wife had to be briefly hospitalized in Brussels during the nearly 8 years we lived there, and the hospital made it very clear to us that we were being charged in this way. Ironically, we still paid less out of pocket for that week-long hospital stay without insurance than we would have paid for a single day hospital stay here in the US with insurance. So, overall, we were pretty happy about the amount we were paying.

CSMastermind 5y ago
> Ironically, we still paid less out of pocket for that week-long hospital stay without insurance than we would have paid for a single day hospital stay here in the US with insurance. I'm curious about this one. I've been to the hospital one time in my adult life. Stayed overnight, got multiple tests including an Xray and an MRI. Got medication, etc. Having heard the horror stories I was ready for a big bill. It was like $140. It was cheaper than a hotel room would have been. I can't tell if I just have exceptionally good insurance or if people who make a big deal about the US healthcare system are leaving out critical details.
- throwaway2037 5y ago
  I am confused by this seriously down-voted post. Are you based in the US visiting a local hospital saying that you received (very!) fair pricing for an MRI and X-ray? If not, can you please explain?
  - CSMastermind 5y ago
    I am, I'm a US citizen and my one major interaction with the US healthcare system seemed like I received great treatment for a completely fair price.
- rndgermandude 5y ago
  Google search tells me that in 2020 the median deductible (out of pocket pay before health insurance takes over costs) was between $1,418 and $2,295 depending largely on the company size, with "platinum" plans median of only $95 and "bronze" plans median of $6,992[1]. The cost of an MRI (starting at $400, going way up depending on what was MRI'ed)[2], xray (starting at $100)[3] and an overnight stay (around $2600 non-ICU [4]) would be at least $3100 alone if you had to pay everything out of pocket, not accounting for any additional costs (the unspecified "additional tests" you mentioned, for example, or things you haven't explicitly mentioned but may still used like an ambulance ride, etc). Of course, this is recent prices, and the prices may have varied when you actually were in hospital, and it is my understanding that prices both for health care services and procedures, and health insurance can vary widely depending on the region and the providers involved in the US. But my google-fu let's me conclude that you indeed extremely likely had a health insurance plan at "platinum" level, far better than what most of your fellow citizens in the US enjoy. Somebody with a plan near the "median deductible" would have paid that median deductible of more than $1400 in full, or around 10x what you had to pay, somebody unlucky enough to be on a "bronze" plan might have had to pay the full amount (or at least around 7 grand), and there are about 31 million people in the US without health insurance[5] who would have had to pay in full. (Please note that I, as somebody who never experienced the US health care system, can thus only provide an outside view based on what I heard from people I know and in the media, and googled) [1] https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-health-insurance-cost-4774184 https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-health-insurance-... [2] https://www.itnonline.com/content/mri-costs https://www.itnonline.com/content/mri-costs [3] https://health.costhelper.com/x-rays.html https://health.costhelper.com/x-rays.html [4] https://www.debt.org/medical/hospital-surgery-costs/ https://www.debt.org/medical/hospital-surgery-costs/ [5] https://www.statista.com/statistics/200955/americans-without-health-insurance/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/200955/americans-without...