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YouTube CEO Defends Hiding Dislike Count, Says It Reduced Harassment

29 points by caaqil 5y ago

idiocrat 5y ago
Very much in damage control mode. They would not need to justify the decision now, if the decision was in fact right.
envp 5y ago
> Some of you mention dislikes help you decide what to watch,” said YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki. “But dislikes were never shown to people on the homepage, search results, up next screen, where users were most likely to choose a video Well I click the video and back out as soon as I see dislikes approachung likes in quantity. Was that really so hard to come up with for said CEO?
- atom_arranger 5y ago
  Could be a good argument for putting the ratio on the homepage and search results too.
- sigmaprimus 5y ago
  > Some of you mention dislikes help you decide what to watch,” said YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki. "But... *Edit* YOUTUBE WILL DECIDE THAT FOR YOU!!!
- libertine 5y ago
  This was, and it's just confirmed after this statement, the justification and results for this action: hiding dislikes improved watch-time overall on youtube. Like she said, the problem wasn't the getting in the way of choosing the video, but for bouncing out of it. No dislikes, less bounce, more watch time, less time spent on other platforms, more revenue from advertising. Basically they are sugar coating potential crap to feed to their users.
gokdisjtrdcvv5 5y ago
Easy solution for small creator harassment: Disable likes if under 50k subscribers! Obviously not perfect but much better than the current system.
- google234123 5y ago
  Most crappy videos are from channels with under 50k subscribers so this wouldn't help anyone.
ljp_206 5y ago
I'm curious to hear from YouTube users who (used to) consider the dislike count before watching a video. I can't recall if it ever majorly factored into my watch habits. I usually only noticed it in cases when users were likely being harassed (crazy ratios), or if a creator strayed from what their audience expected (anything less than crazy). On a post dislike platform, I'd expect that lowered view counts would serve as an indicator of low quality content, or audience dissatisfaction.
- gokdisjtrdcvv5 5y ago
  Video game tutorials and programming tutorials come to mind. Some programming ones I watched had some really big security flaws and I only noticed when I saw the dislikes that something was wrong! Video game tutorials also are usually very poor quality and checking the dislike before watching is a good way to see if it’s a waste of time or not.
- existencebox 5y ago
  I used to consider the dislike count. I am still inconvenienced by its absence. To give one example: In the major categories of videos I watch (tutorials, niche historical topics, video games, music) it was very common for at least some type of "Trojan horse" content to show up (heavily amateur/improper/incorrect content, potentially troll content or in the music case bad rips/"remixes"/mislabeled songs etc.) Previously, dislike count gave me a way of catching this trivially, even in cases when comments were disabled, before I wasted time loading the page or getting blasted with max volume noise (human screaming in one case IIRC) to the point of clipping my speakers (I hit this post-removal as well, thus this rant). Low view counts are effectively meaningless as an oracle given that it's largely expected in many cases. This change has for me as a user severely hampered Youtube's utility as a platform (I effectively no longer use it for discovery), and as a technologist, lowered my respect for the functionality/integrity of the software and its design choices. (I doubt they are unaware of this, but I also doubt I'm their target demographic, and find their stated justifications disingenuous at best.)
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macilacilove 5y ago
Most people in North Korea believe the party is actually really popular.
0xy 5y ago
This is the CEO that issued herself the Free Speech Award her own company sponsored (which got 99% downvoted due to the clear conflict of interest and the irony of the award). She's so far from reality it's likely she actually believes her own clear lies (small creators have been able to hide dislikes for years).
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  It didn't happen if you can't see it.
Ekaros 5y ago
I don't see how it reduces harassment. The creator still sees it. It is not like they were removed entirely... And I think some manipulation was already possible. So I see even less point in this action.
ukoms 5y ago
Yes, it reduced harassment. Especially towards youtube's rewinds and other crap. Totally understandable. NOT!
errcorrectcode 5y ago
She sounds like Cuomo trying to stay governor.
fattless 5y ago
Though its talking about video games and not social networks, I think it apples. A somewhat similar thing has been happening in the gaming world, where useful/fun social features are removed for the sake of toxicity and the few bad actors. Saw a tweet today that captured this really well: “ I'm really tired of companies pretending that removing all social features in games is "addressing toxicity." My friend @sparkie237 put it well. "I've made a car that cannot crash! It has no engine!" "Is that really addressing the prob-" "ARE YOU SUPPORTING CAR CRASHES!?"” https://twitter.com/Raycevick/status/1486187003905339398?s=20 https://twitter.com/Raycevick/status/1486187003905339398?s=2... Perhaps a worrying trend, its endlessly frustrating when things like this happen. Toxicity is often a problem, but especially in the case of YouTube, where the dislike serves an pretty important role in the user experience, this toxic positivity practically only serves yt’s interests.

29 points by caaqil 5y ago

Very much in damage control mode. They would not need to justify the decision now, if the decision was in fact right.

envp 5y ago

> Some of you mention dislikes help you decide what to watch,” said YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki. “But dislikes were never shown to people on the homepage, search results, up next screen, where users were most likely to choose a video Well I click the video and back out as soon as I see dislikes approachung likes in quantity. Was that really so hard to come up with for said CEO?

atom_arranger 5y ago
Could be a good argument for putting the ratio on the homepage and search results too.
sigmaprimus 5y ago
> Some of you mention dislikes help you decide what to watch,” said YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki. "But... *Edit* YOUTUBE WILL DECIDE THAT FOR YOU!!!
libertine 5y ago
This was, and it's just confirmed after this statement, the justification and results for this action: hiding dislikes improved watch-time overall on youtube. Like she said, the problem wasn't the getting in the way of choosing the video, but for bouncing out of it. No dislikes, less bounce, more watch time, less time spent on other platforms, more revenue from advertising. Basically they are sugar coating potential crap to feed to their users.

gokdisjtrdcvv5 5y ago

Easy solution for small creator harassment: Disable likes if under 50k subscribers! Obviously not perfect but much better than the current system.

google234123 5y ago
Most crappy videos are from channels with under 50k subscribers so this wouldn't help anyone.

ljp_206 5y ago

I'm curious to hear from YouTube users who (used to) consider the dislike count before watching a video. I can't recall if it ever majorly factored into my watch habits. I usually only noticed it in cases when users were likely being harassed (crazy ratios), or if a creator strayed from what their audience expected (anything less than crazy). On a post dislike platform, I'd expect that lowered view counts would serve as an indicator of low quality content, or audience dissatisfaction.

gokdisjtrdcvv5 5y ago
Video game tutorials and programming tutorials come to mind. Some programming ones I watched had some really big security flaws and I only noticed when I saw the dislikes that something was wrong! Video game tutorials also are usually very poor quality and checking the dislike before watching is a good way to see if it’s a waste of time or not.
existencebox 5y ago
I used to consider the dislike count. I am still inconvenienced by its absence. To give one example: In the major categories of videos I watch (tutorials, niche historical topics, video games, music) it was very common for at least some type of "Trojan horse" content to show up (heavily amateur/improper/incorrect content, potentially troll content or in the music case bad rips/"remixes"/mislabeled songs etc.) Previously, dislike count gave me a way of catching this trivially, even in cases when comments were disabled, before I wasted time loading the page or getting blasted with max volume noise (human screaming in one case IIRC) to the point of clipping my speakers (I hit this post-removal as well, thus this rant). Low view counts are effectively meaningless as an oracle given that it's largely expected in many cases. This change has for me as a user severely hampered Youtube's utility as a platform (I effectively no longer use it for discovery), and as a technologist, lowered my respect for the functionality/integrity of the software and its design choices. (I doubt they are unaware of this, but I also doubt I'm their target demographic, and find their stated justifications disingenuous at best.)
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macilacilove 5y ago

Most people in North Korea believe the party is actually really popular.

0xy 5y ago

This is the CEO that issued herself the Free Speech Award her own company sponsored (which got 99% downvoted due to the clear conflict of interest and the irony of the award). She's so far from reality it's likely she actually believes her own clear lies (small creators have been able to hide dislikes for years).

errcorrectcode 5y ago
It didn't happen if you can't see it.

Ekaros 5y ago

I don't see how it reduces harassment. The creator still sees it. It is not like they were removed entirely... And I think some manipulation was already possible. So I see even less point in this action.

ukoms 5y ago

Yes, it reduced harassment. Especially towards youtube's rewinds and other crap. Totally understandable. NOT!

errcorrectcode 5y ago

She sounds like Cuomo trying to stay governor.

fattless 5y ago

Though its talking about video games and not social networks, I think it apples. A somewhat similar thing has been happening in the gaming world, where useful/fun social features are removed for the sake of toxicity and the few bad actors. Saw a tweet today that captured this really well: “ I'm really tired of companies pretending that removing all social features in games is "addressing toxicity." My friend @sparkie237 put it well. "I've made a car that cannot crash! It has no engine!" "Is that really addressing the prob-" "ARE YOU SUPPORTING CAR CRASHES!?"” https://twitter.com/Raycevick/status/1486187003905339398?s=20 https://twitter.com/Raycevick/status/1486187003905339398?s=2... Perhaps a worrying trend, its endlessly frustrating when things like this happen. Toxicity is often a problem, but especially in the case of YouTube, where the dislike serves an pretty important role in the user experience, this toxic positivity practically only serves yt’s interests.