6 ms·

Conferences cost money. You have to rent an appropriate venue, people tend to expect refreshments, etc. Why would it be free just because you are presenting the

Conferences cost money. You have to rent an appropriate venue, people tend to expect refreshments, etc. Why would it be free just because you are presenting there? So are most of the attendees.

kristopolous 5y ago
Two things. The person walks away after this $600 poorer. We've found ways to do things of arguably far less social value then say, a new medical discovery, such as stand up comedy or say a club dj without them having to fork over $600 to do what they're being advertised for. In fact, they actually get paid. Second, the enterprise for expanding human knowledge shouldn't come with a door fee, full stop. If we want to progress the sciences we should find out how to collectively pay for it without charging amounts to all involved that they cannot afford. If we want, say, 1,000 Einsteins as Jeff Bezos believe we should be aiming for, we should try funding the process and not sticker shock it at every step. Stagnation is always a structural problem. This is so fixable if we actually exercise the will to do it
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dash2 5y ago
  It’s not a good analogy. Gigs and stand-up comedy have big audiences. Academic conferences don’t. Hiring a venue, paying for dinner, these things have cost. $600 isn’t unreasonable. By contrast $12,000 to publish a PDF on a website is criminal.
  - netr0ute 5y ago
    > Academic conferences don’t. Untrue, as shown by there being a conference in the first place.
    - dash2 5y ago
      Some conferences are big. Many are 20 people.
    - kristopolous 5y ago
      Not only but there's plenty of 20 seat comedy nights and tiny drive bars where the performers gets paid. This isn't a necessary artifact of a structural reality. It's a political choice that we can exercise the freedom to change.
CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
Whenever I speak at a tech event, my attendance cost is free. (I'm still on the hook for flight and hotel, usually.)
- kragen 5y ago
  Those events usually aren't the ones where most of the attendees are presenting, though sometimes things like Bar Camps can get the venue etc. sponsored. Finding sponsors to foot the bill can be harder for conferences for academics who aren't interested in leaving their tenure-track position to configure Kubernetes at a hot new Uber for Guinea Pigs startup. Still, church picnics, potluck dinners, and wedding parties usually don't cost US$600 a person. Do we really need the Anaheim Convention Center or the Four Seasons Hotel to hang out and chat about capability-secure hardware architecture or isopiestic measurements of deliquescence points? Or could we maybe pitch some circus tents in a field somewhere and rent some folding chairs and tables? Instead of whiteboards we can use 4'x8' melamine sheets.
  - CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
    I like your style. We should start StateFairCon someday
    - kragen 5y ago
      Ooh, that's an excellent point! State fairs never cost US$600 per person, even when you include all the funnel cakes and donut-bun hamburger sandwiches bought from the concessionnaires. Typical admission prices in the US are maybe US$20 per day? But they have plenty of space, lots of conference rooms, bathroom facilities, handicapped accessibility, folding chairs, and so on. I bet you could hold an academic conference at a state fair fairgrounds for under US$100 a person. But I've never heard of a sci-fi con doing this, so maybe there's a fatal flaw in this idea I'm not seeing.
      - CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
        Academic conferences are usually "comfortable" environments with plenty of air conditioning. It might undermine the prestige a bit if we did that. Or maybe it'd have a different charm than the norm.
torbTurret 5y ago
Sure, but $600 felt like a massive over expenditure to me. And there was no conference - this was in 2020, so the entire thing was virtual. No refreshments either. Also, every staff member I met was a “volunteer”.
hyperbovine 5y ago
Also, they are fundraising mechanisms for the professional societies that put them on. The pandemic killing conference attendance no doubt put a lot of them in a budget crunch.
BongoMcCat 5y ago
doesn't it cost to go to the conference? I would expect the people who are listening to the presentation to be the ones paying, not the one giving the presentation.
- yiyus 5y ago
  Usually, most listeners are presenters too.
- torbTurret 5y ago
  It costs a separate $45 to attend as well. If you present, they don’t combine these fees.
Jansen312 5y ago
Governments and sponsoring companies should pay for it. The rest of us a presenters and private inviduals should get it free. Knowledge should be free flow not at every steps being VAT-ed.
doetoe 5y ago
I understood that the $600 is not the attendance fee but am additional charge for the privilege of presenting. The only reason they can get away with that is that people may need to have such things on their CV.

Conferences cost money. You have to rent an appropriate venue, people tend to expect refreshments, etc. Why would it be free just because you are presenting there? So are most of the attendees.

kristopolous 5y ago

Two things. The person walks away after this $600 poorer. We've found ways to do things of arguably far less social value then say, a new medical discovery, such as stand up comedy or say a club dj without them having to fork over $600 to do what they're being advertised for. In fact, they actually get paid. Second, the enterprise for expanding human knowledge shouldn't come with a door fee, full stop. If we want to progress the sciences we should find out how to collectively pay for it without charging amounts to all involved that they cannot afford. If we want, say, 1,000 Einsteins as Jeff Bezos believe we should be aiming for, we should try funding the process and not sticker shock it at every step. Stagnation is always a structural problem. This is so fixable if we actually exercise the will to do it

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dash2 5y ago
It’s not a good analogy. Gigs and stand-up comedy have big audiences. Academic conferences don’t. Hiring a venue, paying for dinner, these things have cost. $600 isn’t unreasonable. By contrast $12,000 to publish a PDF on a website is criminal.
- netr0ute 5y ago
  > Academic conferences don’t. Untrue, as shown by there being a conference in the first place.
  - dash2 5y ago
    Some conferences are big. Many are 20 people.
  - kristopolous 5y ago
    Not only but there's plenty of 20 seat comedy nights and tiny drive bars where the performers gets paid. This isn't a necessary artifact of a structural reality. It's a political choice that we can exercise the freedom to change.

CiPHPerCoder 5y ago

Whenever I speak at a tech event, my attendance cost is free. (I'm still on the hook for flight and hotel, usually.)

kragen 5y ago
Those events usually aren't the ones where most of the attendees are presenting, though sometimes things like Bar Camps can get the venue etc. sponsored. Finding sponsors to foot the bill can be harder for conferences for academics who aren't interested in leaving their tenure-track position to configure Kubernetes at a hot new Uber for Guinea Pigs startup. Still, church picnics, potluck dinners, and wedding parties usually don't cost US$600 a person. Do we really need the Anaheim Convention Center or the Four Seasons Hotel to hang out and chat about capability-secure hardware architecture or isopiestic measurements of deliquescence points? Or could we maybe pitch some circus tents in a field somewhere and rent some folding chairs and tables? Instead of whiteboards we can use 4'x8' melamine sheets.
- CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
  I like your style. We should start StateFairCon someday
  - kragen 5y ago
    Ooh, that's an excellent point! State fairs never cost US$600 per person, even when you include all the funnel cakes and donut-bun hamburger sandwiches bought from the concessionnaires. Typical admission prices in the US are maybe US$20 per day? But they have plenty of space, lots of conference rooms, bathroom facilities, handicapped accessibility, folding chairs, and so on. I bet you could hold an academic conference at a state fair fairgrounds for under US$100 a person. But I've never heard of a sci-fi con doing this, so maybe there's a fatal flaw in this idea I'm not seeing.
    - CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
      Academic conferences are usually "comfortable" environments with plenty of air conditioning. It might undermine the prestige a bit if we did that. Or maybe it'd have a different charm than the norm.

torbTurret 5y ago

Sure, but $600 felt like a massive over expenditure to me. And there was no conference - this was in 2020, so the entire thing was virtual. No refreshments either. Also, every staff member I met was a “volunteer”.

hyperbovine 5y ago

Also, they are fundraising mechanisms for the professional societies that put them on. The pandemic killing conference attendance no doubt put a lot of them in a budget crunch.

BongoMcCat 5y ago

doesn't it cost to go to the conference? I would expect the people who are listening to the presentation to be the ones paying, not the one giving the presentation.

yiyus 5y ago
Usually, most listeners are presenters too.
torbTurret 5y ago
It costs a separate $45 to attend as well. If you present, they don’t combine these fees.

Jansen312 5y ago

Governments and sponsoring companies should pay for it. The rest of us a presenters and private inviduals should get it free. Knowledge should be free flow not at every steps being VAT-ed.

doetoe 5y ago

I understood that the $600 is not the attendance fee but am additional charge for the privilege of presenting. The only reason they can get away with that is that people may need to have such things on their CV.