5 ms·

They have access to all the world's information. They can travel across continents in a number of hours for less than two weeks wages. They can push a button on

They have access to all the world's information. They can travel across continents in a number of hours for less than two weeks wages. They can push a button on their phone to have gourmet food delivered to their house in under an hour. They can press another button on their phone to fetch a personal driver that will deliver them to any destination. They can choose to drive themselves, of course, and can travel hundreds of miles in an affordable, smooth ride that beats even a gold adorned horse drawn carriage, while streaming music from any decade or century. They can learn almost any skill. They can converse instantly with anyone in the world in a way that beats even magic mirrors of medieval fantasy. If you had to choose between being Louis XVI or Henry VIII and a middle class American in Cleveland, Ohio, what would you choose?

yesbabyyes 5y ago
At first, I was confused reading your assertions of what poor people of the US can do, things that obviously demand money - cash or credit - that a person in poverty don't have. With your final sentence I realized you're not talking about poverty at all, but the wealthy, which in a sense clarified things, but also made me confused: what does your comment have to do with this discussion?
- post_from_work 5y ago
  >>>At first, I was confused reading your assertions of what poor people of the US can do, things that obviously demand money - cash or credit - that a person in poverty don't have. A homeless, flat-broke prostitute can turn 4 tricks in a day. Let's call them $50 each, for $200 cash-in-hand. Then they can take that $200 to Wal-Mart, buy an Android phone for $50, a SIM card for $50, and one of those loadable debit cards for $50. That leaves them with $50 cash and a $50 debit card balance. They can use their smartphone and debit card to access many of the modern amenities that the parent post mentioned, such as a delivery meal from Uber Eats, or a Greyhound bus ticket, or music on iTunes. The point is, this stuff is within the realm of the possible for the modern poor. It is NOT for a medieval king. Not at all. No matter how large his army, no matter how much gold in his coffers, Richard the Lionheart can't instantly access music from the other side of the planet while traveling across England in a climate-controlled vehicle at twice the speed of a horse.
  - notahacker 5y ago
    I don't imagine many people would trade sitting on a throne in a grand hall enjoying a feast whilst watching the era's leading performers personally dedicate performances to them for the possibility of selling their body to download a superhero movie and buy a burrito and packet of cigarettes. There are some tradeoffs where the average person doing a boring middle class job really does have better opportunity and greater security than pretty much anyone in pre 20th century history (and some forms of ancient kingship that really weren't pleasant lifestyles), but let's not take it to reductio ad absurdum levels
    - post_from_work 5y ago
      >>>I don't imagine many people would trade sitting on a throne in a grand hall enjoying a feast whilst watching the era's leading performers personally dedicate performances to them for the possibility of selling their body to download a superhero movie and buy a burrito and packet of cigarettes. That "grand hall" had worse climate control than a Motel-6, and the food was dirty. We can debate the subjective utility of skilled medieval musicians vs a low-end local rock/metal concert with supporting audiovisual systems (a ticket to that can fit within the budget of a few tricks), I would charitably call that a break-even. And a $50 trick buys a LOT more than a burrito and a pack of cigs. You can get a steak dinner at Texas Roadhouse to with your pack of Newport 100s. The "ick factor" of selling their body was just to demonstrate that even the most down-on-their-luck, homeless, destitute American has a path to access the commodity goods of our age. I don't think it's an absurd reduction to point that out.
coldtea 5y ago
>They have access to all the world's information. So? The Kings had access to much more information than they cared about already. >They can travel across continents in a number of hours for less than two weeks wages. A big chunk can't even afford to take a couple of sick days off, lest they be fired, or can't afford to retire and work in their late 60s and 70s in shitty jobs like a Walmart greeter - much less travel across continents to have vacations. >They can push a button on their phone to have gourmet food delivered to their house in under an hour. The King could do the same, all day, every day, with personal chefs familiar with their preferences, and without fear for the expenses... >They can press another button on their phone to fetch a personal driver that will deliver them to any destination. Oh, how Kings would be jealous of the magic of Uber... Still, are we talking about the poor - for which Uber is an expense they have to consider very well, and days off a luxury, or people above that? Because I don't see many trailer park types visiting Paris or Barcelona... >If you had to choose between being Louis XVI or Henry VIII and a middle class American in Cleveland, Ohio, what would you choose? Depends, if the middle class American is also cherry picked to die (e.g. from some stray bullet or robbery gone wrong), I'd pick one of the Kings. As for Kings who didn't die in guillotine, that would be a no brainer. Who wants to be a middle class schmuck in Ohio, as opposed to a King? (I guess the kind of people who overestimate the magic of Uber and food delivery).
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Henry VIII didn't die from violence. He died from (probably) complications of obesity at 55. I'd rather be some random middle-class female from Ohio than one of Henry's wives, though. In fact, I'd rather be some random middle-class female from Ohio than any female in the Middle Ages, because of the dangers of childbirth back then.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Henry VIII lived in constant agony from a jousting injury. The witch doctors of the day could do nothing for him. Complications of obesity likely meant diabetes.
- BorisTheBrave 5y ago
Frondo 5y ago
America's poor can't travel (it costs! even if you bus it, you need time off work, a place to stay, etc), they can't have gourmet food delivered (it costs!), they can't fetch a driver (it costs!), they often can't drive themselves (cars cost!). They also generally can't afford medical care, child care, a wide variety of leisure activities (plays, shows, even movies cost!) They do have access to information and music, but if I had to be a medieval king or a poor person in Cleveland, it is such a no-brainer I can't even understand how the question is being asked.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > America's poor can't travel How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of destitute migrants tramping thousands of miles to get here? They'll get treated for free in emergency rooms. Medieval doctors were worse than no medical care at all, ever. > even movies cost! During the Depression, the movie houses were full of people sleeping, as they were cheaper than a hotel.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    > They'll get treated for free in emergency rooms. Um, no, that is not free in the US. You can go into serious debt that way.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      They still get free treatment, regardless of their debt. The hospitals just write off those debts, it's covered by the high prices they charge the patients who can pay.
      - DarylZero 5y ago
        Defaulting on a debt isn't the same thing as getting something for free.
        WalterBright 5y ago
guerrilla 5y ago
> If you had to choose between being Louis XVI or Henry VIII and a middle class American in Cleveland, Ohio, what would you choose? You moved the goalpost from: > Today, America's poor have a better quality of life than medieval kings.

yesbabyyes 5y ago

At first, I was confused reading your assertions of what poor people of the US can do, things that obviously demand money - cash or credit - that a person in poverty don't have. With your final sentence I realized you're not talking about poverty at all, but the wealthy, which in a sense clarified things, but also made me confused: what does your comment have to do with this discussion?

post_from_work 5y ago
>>>At first, I was confused reading your assertions of what poor people of the US can do, things that obviously demand money - cash or credit - that a person in poverty don't have. A homeless, flat-broke prostitute can turn 4 tricks in a day. Let's call them $50 each, for $200 cash-in-hand. Then they can take that $200 to Wal-Mart, buy an Android phone for $50, a SIM card for $50, and one of those loadable debit cards for $50. That leaves them with $50 cash and a $50 debit card balance. They can use their smartphone and debit card to access many of the modern amenities that the parent post mentioned, such as a delivery meal from Uber Eats, or a Greyhound bus ticket, or music on iTunes. The point is, this stuff is within the realm of the possible for the modern poor. It is NOT for a medieval king. Not at all. No matter how large his army, no matter how much gold in his coffers, Richard the Lionheart can't instantly access music from the other side of the planet while traveling across England in a climate-controlled vehicle at twice the speed of a horse.
- notahacker 5y ago
  I don't imagine many people would trade sitting on a throne in a grand hall enjoying a feast whilst watching the era's leading performers personally dedicate performances to them for the possibility of selling their body to download a superhero movie and buy a burrito and packet of cigarettes. There are some tradeoffs where the average person doing a boring middle class job really does have better opportunity and greater security than pretty much anyone in pre 20th century history (and some forms of ancient kingship that really weren't pleasant lifestyles), but let's not take it to reductio ad absurdum levels
  - post_from_work 5y ago
    >>>I don't imagine many people would trade sitting on a throne in a grand hall enjoying a feast whilst watching the era's leading performers personally dedicate performances to them for the possibility of selling their body to download a superhero movie and buy a burrito and packet of cigarettes. That "grand hall" had worse climate control than a Motel-6, and the food was dirty. We can debate the subjective utility of skilled medieval musicians vs a low-end local rock/metal concert with supporting audiovisual systems (a ticket to that can fit within the budget of a few tricks), I would charitably call that a break-even. And a $50 trick buys a LOT more than a burrito and a pack of cigs. You can get a steak dinner at Texas Roadhouse to with your pack of Newport 100s. The "ick factor" of selling their body was just to demonstrate that even the most down-on-their-luck, homeless, destitute American has a path to access the commodity goods of our age. I don't think it's an absurd reduction to point that out.

coldtea 5y ago

>They have access to all the world's information. So? The Kings had access to much more information than they cared about already. >They can travel across continents in a number of hours for less than two weeks wages. A big chunk can't even afford to take a couple of sick days off, lest they be fired, or can't afford to retire and work in their late 60s and 70s in shitty jobs like a Walmart greeter - much less travel across continents to have vacations. >They can push a button on their phone to have gourmet food delivered to their house in under an hour. The King could do the same, all day, every day, with personal chefs familiar with their preferences, and without fear for the expenses... >They can press another button on their phone to fetch a personal driver that will deliver them to any destination. Oh, how Kings would be jealous of the magic of Uber... Still, are we talking about the poor - for which Uber is an expense they have to consider very well, and days off a luxury, or people above that? Because I don't see many trailer park types visiting Paris or Barcelona... >If you had to choose between being Louis XVI or Henry VIII and a middle class American in Cleveland, Ohio, what would you choose? Depends, if the middle class American is also cherry picked to die (e.g. from some stray bullet or robbery gone wrong), I'd pick one of the Kings. As for Kings who didn't die in guillotine, that would be a no brainer. Who wants to be a middle class schmuck in Ohio, as opposed to a King? (I guess the kind of people who overestimate the magic of Uber and food delivery).

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Henry VIII didn't die from violence. He died from (probably) complications of obesity at 55. I'd rather be some random middle-class female from Ohio than one of Henry's wives, though. In fact, I'd rather be some random middle-class female from Ohio than any female in the Middle Ages, because of the dangers of childbirth back then.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Henry VIII lived in constant agony from a jousting injury. The witch doctors of the day could do nothing for him. Complications of obesity likely meant diabetes.
BorisTheBrave 5y ago

Frondo 5y ago

America's poor can't travel (it costs! even if you bus it, you need time off work, a place to stay, etc), they can't have gourmet food delivered (it costs!), they can't fetch a driver (it costs!), they often can't drive themselves (cars cost!). They also generally can't afford medical care, child care, a wide variety of leisure activities (plays, shows, even movies cost!) They do have access to information and music, but if I had to be a medieval king or a poor person in Cleveland, it is such a no-brainer I can't even understand how the question is being asked.

WalterBright 5y ago
> America's poor can't travel How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of destitute migrants tramping thousands of miles to get here? They'll get treated for free in emergency rooms. Medieval doctors were worse than no medical care at all, ever. > even movies cost! During the Depression, the movie houses were full of people sleeping, as they were cheaper than a hotel.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  > They'll get treated for free in emergency rooms. Um, no, that is not free in the US. You can go into serious debt that way.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    They still get free treatment, regardless of their debt. The hospitals just write off those debts, it's covered by the high prices they charge the patients who can pay.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      Defaulting on a debt isn't the same thing as getting something for free.
      - WalterBright 5y ago

guerrilla 5y ago

> If you had to choose between being Louis XVI or Henry VIII and a middle class American in Cleveland, Ohio, what would you choose? You moved the goalpost from: > Today, America's poor have a better quality of life than medieval kings.