3 ms·

As someone tuned in to queer twitter I can say that if you know someone’s pronouns you should use them, so ideally for Obama you would use he/him. But also we’r

As someone tuned in to queer twitter I can say that if you know someone’s pronouns you should use them, so ideally for Obama you would use he/him. But also we’re all using they/them a lot more for people when we’re not sure and that can bleed in to people even when we do know their pronouns, and generally that’s not a big deal. Only becomes a problem when a trans person has a clear preference for she/her or he/him (or anything else) and a person repeatedly and willfully uses they/them, as that can be used to deny recognition of someone’s gender identity. But it’s generally not a problem if you use they/them for a cis person once, that can just slip out. We’re more sensitive around pronouns for trans people, since they are much more likely to have trauma around that. They/them is cool for someone with unknown pronouns but it’s best to politely ask as soon as possible and begin to use the preferred ones.

wolverine876 5y ago
OT: I use they/their by default, unless I know otherwise, but what to do with other common gendered terms such as Mr./Ms./Mrs, Sir/Madam/Ma'am/Miss? These aren't avoidable problems: e.g., in the greeting for a business letter ('Dear ...'), or when getting the attention of a member of restaurant waitstaff whose name I don't know, etc. Someone needs to come up with a plausible set of gender-neutral terms. They/their/them works for she/hers/her/he/his/him circumstances, but the needs are broader than that.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  Mostly I’ve just stopped using gendered terms. In a business letter even if the person is not trans you can’t assume Mr/Mrs/Ms unless you know. If their name is gender neutral or ambiguous I would say “Dear First Last,” though that’s even US/western-centric as not all cultures do it that way. If it’s a really important business letter you should probably find out the persons gender using some other channel. Also if the person has a title like Dr or Professor you can use that. Some people use Mx as a gender neutral but I don’t think that would fly with a more conservative minded person.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    I think we can't avoid these issues and need to come up with solutions. I've never seen Mx, so I think many people would wonder what it meant. Just "M." seems better and matches other usage (though outside contemporary English).
    - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
      Sure. I would imagine there has been a lot of discussion around this in certain circles. Probably no shortage of good ideas. I think culturally we need to get to the point where most people accept gender as self identified, and the rest will shake out over time.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > If it’s a really important business letter you should probably find out the persons gender using some other channel. Preferred form of address, not just gender, and this has been the rule for quite a long time. Even within the classical binary, there are all kinds of variations of status, preference, relationship with the sender, etc., that feed into that. John Smith (a man) might be properly referred to in a salutation as any of: “Mr. Smith” ”John” “Dr. Smith” “Your Excellency” (without the “Dear” that would prefer the others) “Rev. Smith” “Father Smith” (And most of these correspond to one or more different forms that would be used in the main address, as well.)

wolverine876 5y ago

OT: I use they/their by default, unless I know otherwise, but what to do with other common gendered terms such as Mr./Ms./Mrs, Sir/Madam/Ma'am/Miss? These aren't avoidable problems: e.g., in the greeting for a business letter ('Dear ...'), or when getting the attention of a member of restaurant waitstaff whose name I don't know, etc. Someone needs to come up with a plausible set of gender-neutral terms. They/their/them works for she/hers/her/he/his/him circumstances, but the needs are broader than that.

TaylorAlexander 5y ago
Mostly I’ve just stopped using gendered terms. In a business letter even if the person is not trans you can’t assume Mr/Mrs/Ms unless you know. If their name is gender neutral or ambiguous I would say “Dear First Last,” though that’s even US/western-centric as not all cultures do it that way. If it’s a really important business letter you should probably find out the persons gender using some other channel. Also if the person has a title like Dr or Professor you can use that. Some people use Mx as a gender neutral but I don’t think that would fly with a more conservative minded person.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  I think we can't avoid these issues and need to come up with solutions. I've never seen Mx, so I think many people would wonder what it meant. Just "M." seems better and matches other usage (though outside contemporary English).
  - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
    Sure. I would imagine there has been a lot of discussion around this in certain circles. Probably no shortage of good ideas. I think culturally we need to get to the point where most people accept gender as self identified, and the rest will shake out over time.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > If it’s a really important business letter you should probably find out the persons gender using some other channel. Preferred form of address, not just gender, and this has been the rule for quite a long time. Even within the classical binary, there are all kinds of variations of status, preference, relationship with the sender, etc., that feed into that. John Smith (a man) might be properly referred to in a salutation as any of: “Mr. Smith” ”John” “Dr. Smith” “Your Excellency” (without the “Dear” that would prefer the others) “Rev. Smith” “Father Smith” (And most of these correspond to one or more different forms that would be used in the main address, as well.)