7 ms·

A lot. Technical managers need not be experienced technical talents who have made a potentially incompatible shift to management.

icedchai 5y ago
It is better if the managers of technical people are technical themselves. Otherwise you wind up with the Dilbert "pointy-haired-boss" syndrome. The non-technical manager is extremely easy to bullshit, so it's better for the company in almost all ways.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  An experienced manager is not easy to bullshit regardless. Sometimes a non-technical manager is better for many reasons. Having business domain experience can be just as valuable
  - lostcolony 5y ago
    I have encountered non-technical managers who were good, but in every case they would have been better still had they had some technical background. I have encountered technical managers who were not good, for various reasons. I think having a technical background is always a benefit, HOWEVER, it is neither necessary nor sufficient for being a good manager.
    - paulcole 5y ago
      The same is true of software engineers. Every single one of them would be better if they had more of a non-technical background.
      - lostcolony 5y ago
        Yep; though enough time working for companies tends to instill some knowledge and understanding of the business side of things, and as long as understanding of the business correlates with their own influence it tends to work out okay. Management is weird in that understanding of the tech side of things doesn't correlate with influence.
- majormajor 5y ago
  The problem with the "non-technical manager = easy to bullshit" idea is that it's basically the engineer's equivalent of the "engineer = assembly line cog who shouldn't be exposed to anything but their JIRA tickets" idea for bad management. It's what you find in poorly-run or excessively cheap organizations, but it's hardly an upper bound.
- alexashka 5y ago
  When you think you're fooling someone, you're really only fooling yourself. It doesn't take a genius to know who is doing the work and who is looking for every excuse to be 'blocked'. Managers simply know that they can't hire or fire and that calling someone on their bullshit would accomplish nothing, so they say nothing. Managers are masters of soft power. Soft power is very hard for engineering/techie types to understand, which is why it works so well on them, because they don't even understand the game they're a part of :)
  - MauroIksem 5y ago
    There is a lot of bullshit in this comment.
    - jraph 5y ago
      Yes. I hope we get rid of this cliché of the technical person who is not good at human interactions. Most developers I know are good at human interactions, some even among the best. I don't want to be put in that box, and I'm not willing to excuse someone bad at human interactions because they are technical. Obviously some people are better at human interactions than others, and I'll be happy to adapt, but let's not imply causes.
      - alexashka 5y ago
        Your anecdotal evidence and personal preference is irrelevant in a discussion about statistics.
        jraph 5y ago
        Do you have statistics on the matter?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        alexashka 5y ago
- kelnos 5y ago
  I prefer fairly non-technical engineering managers who stick to their lane. Their job should be to help manage the project schedule (in coordination with and guided by technical leads and product leadership), coordinate with other teams, coordinate with middle and upper management, and help their reports with whatever career development they need. They should not be making technology decisions or specifying how the work gets done. They should trust their reports to not bullshit (and if that trust is broken, those reports should be fired). I think having a technical background can be helpful for these managers, but I don't think it's strictly necessary, and they should be doing essentially zero technical work as a part of their management job. I've found managers who are like this to be incredibly useful and productive, and a pleasure to work with. Managers who want to get involved in technical decisions just get in the way and cause problems. Unfortunately a lot of newly-promoted former engineers can't let go of the technical work.

icedchai 5y ago

It is better if the managers of technical people are technical themselves. Otherwise you wind up with the Dilbert "pointy-haired-boss" syndrome. The non-technical manager is extremely easy to bullshit, so it's better for the company in almost all ways.

ipaddr 5y ago
An experienced manager is not easy to bullshit regardless. Sometimes a non-technical manager is better for many reasons. Having business domain experience can be just as valuable
- lostcolony 5y ago
  I have encountered non-technical managers who were good, but in every case they would have been better still had they had some technical background. I have encountered technical managers who were not good, for various reasons. I think having a technical background is always a benefit, HOWEVER, it is neither necessary nor sufficient for being a good manager.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    The same is true of software engineers. Every single one of them would be better if they had more of a non-technical background.
    - lostcolony 5y ago
      Yep; though enough time working for companies tends to instill some knowledge and understanding of the business side of things, and as long as understanding of the business correlates with their own influence it tends to work out okay. Management is weird in that understanding of the tech side of things doesn't correlate with influence.
majormajor 5y ago
The problem with the "non-technical manager = easy to bullshit" idea is that it's basically the engineer's equivalent of the "engineer = assembly line cog who shouldn't be exposed to anything but their JIRA tickets" idea for bad management. It's what you find in poorly-run or excessively cheap organizations, but it's hardly an upper bound.
alexashka 5y ago
When you think you're fooling someone, you're really only fooling yourself. It doesn't take a genius to know who is doing the work and who is looking for every excuse to be 'blocked'. Managers simply know that they can't hire or fire and that calling someone on their bullshit would accomplish nothing, so they say nothing. Managers are masters of soft power. Soft power is very hard for engineering/techie types to understand, which is why it works so well on them, because they don't even understand the game they're a part of :)
- MauroIksem 5y ago
  There is a lot of bullshit in this comment.
  - jraph 5y ago
    Yes. I hope we get rid of this cliché of the technical person who is not good at human interactions. Most developers I know are good at human interactions, some even among the best. I don't want to be put in that box, and I'm not willing to excuse someone bad at human interactions because they are technical. Obviously some people are better at human interactions than others, and I'll be happy to adapt, but let's not imply causes.
    - alexashka 5y ago
      Your anecdotal evidence and personal preference is irrelevant in a discussion about statistics.
      - jraph 5y ago
        Do you have statistics on the matter?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        alexashka 5y ago
kelnos 5y ago
I prefer fairly non-technical engineering managers who stick to their lane. Their job should be to help manage the project schedule (in coordination with and guided by technical leads and product leadership), coordinate with other teams, coordinate with middle and upper management, and help their reports with whatever career development they need. They should not be making technology decisions or specifying how the work gets done. They should trust their reports to not bullshit (and if that trust is broken, those reports should be fired). I think having a technical background can be helpful for these managers, but I don't think it's strictly necessary, and they should be doing essentially zero technical work as a part of their management job. I've found managers who are like this to be incredibly useful and productive, and a pleasure to work with. Managers who want to get involved in technical decisions just get in the way and cause problems. Unfortunately a lot of newly-promoted former engineers can't let go of the technical work.