5 ms·

Whether this pans out into an approved vaccine or not, I'm terribly curious about the results of the study comparing Omicron booster versus existing booster. A

Whether this pans out into an approved vaccine or not, I'm terribly curious about the results of the study comparing Omicron booster versus existing booster. Apparently the existing booster shot elicited a more diverse set of antibodies compared to the ones from just a two shot regimen. Which is kinda interesting. I forget what it's called, but there's this phenomenon in immunology where the immune system can get "stuck" with whatever initial antibodies it comes up with and doesn't adapt well. Seems that wasn't the case with the COVID boosters, thankfully. And that explains why the boosters have been so dramatically more effective against Omicron (80% versus <40% for those with just two shots, natural immunity, etc; IIRC). But would an Omicron booster have elicited an even "better" set of antibodies? Would we get back to 90% protection like the good ole days? And of course the big question; is an Omicron booster going to provide better forward protection? The results of this study are going to be deliciously intriguing.

flatiron 5y ago
I feel like we are going to have to get a yearly booster and they will be guessing the strains every year just like the flu. Note: 100% a gut feeling
- ethbr0 5y ago
  That was pretty obvious since March 2020. Highly contagious respiratory viruses with non-human reservoirs don't go back into the bottle, once they're circulating.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    No, but flu is the only one that evolves so quickly that we need a new shot every year.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      Coronaviruses give people colds too, they just weren't as widespread or symptomatic as influenza. Now, they probably will be.
- walterbell 5y ago
  Jan 23rd, https://www.rt.com/news/546859-pfizer-ceo-future-vaccines/ https://www.rt.com/news/546859-pfizer-ceo-future-vaccines/ > In a series of interviews with Israeli TV channels, Albert Bourla said it would “not be a good scenario” if people were to get boosters every four to five months. “What I'm hoping [is] that we will have a vaccine that you will have to do once a year,” ... Bourla argued that it is both easier to sell the idea and “easier for people to remember” if a vaccine is required only once per year, calling it “an ideal situation” from “a public health perspective.”
- fpgaminer 5y ago
  There's some distant hope for a "super" vaccine against the entire coronavirus (sub)family: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/pan-coronavirus-super-vaccine https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/pan-coronavir...
  - iso1210 5y ago
    Imagine if the development work for covid vaccines ends up with more effective vaccines against things like flu and even the common cold
  - standard458 5y ago
    I'm hoping for some serious advances in masks. And the social acceptability of walking around looking like Bane.
ukie 5y ago
loceng 5y ago
Will there be confirmed better oversight than with Pfizer's 12-15 year old clinical trial, re: Maddie De Garay's story? https://youtu.be/L2GKPYzL_JQ https://youtu.be/L2GKPYzL_JQ - "How many more adverse effects have been covered up during the trials? - Maddie de Garay's story."
- walterbell 5y ago
  The Maddie de Garay story is tragic and history will not look kindly on the unnecessary censorship of an injured child in Pfizer's original clinical trial. They could have used that incident as an opportunity to demonstrate the protocols for investigation and prevent of similar injuries. It's promising that there will be slightly higher regulatory standards for the Omicron vaccine: clinical trial in humans must be completed before approval and clinical trial data must be submitted at the same time, i.e. no 75-year delays. > the debate appears to have shifted with the European Medicines Agency (EMA) saying on Friday that international regulators now preferred clinical studies to be carried out before approval of a new vaccine ... Inclusion of clinical trial data in the regulatory filings may have an impact on the delivery of initial batches.
  - loceng 5y ago
    Don't you think everyone in society would be shocked to also know that, aside from suppressing her severe adverse reactions, they only tracked participants for 7 days - along with other blatantly obvious problems with the vaccine trial designs?
    - walterbell 5y ago
      Yes, we need more transparency on all the trials, e.g. comparing methodology and benchmarking against standard practices. Justifications for corner cutting in 2020 trials should not apply to 2022+ trials. If this issue were more widely understood, there would be several open-source repos aggregating "lessons learned" and public info about the trials, across countries and vendors.
      - 5y ago
ralph84 5y ago
> I forget what it's called, but there's this phenomenon in immunology where the immune system can get "stuck" with whatever initial antibodies it comes up with and doesn't adapt well. It's called original antigenic sin[0]. It's one of the reasons that mass vaccination against a variant that is no longer circulating may not be the wisest strategy. But anyone who dares mention it is shouted down as anti-vaxx. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin
- xadhominemx 5y ago
  I guess that’s a theoretical possibility for a different virus, but in truth the mRNA vaccines provide robust protection from serious illness from omicron: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    It is a possibility for any virus
    - xadhominemx 5y ago
      Well it’s empirically not the case for Omicron, as the vaccines have continued to provide robust protection against hospitalization and death
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        Neither the post you replied to or I said it applied to omicron. in fact, the parent said that it didn't. The fact that it didnt apply to omnicron, does not mean that it couldn't apply to covid, which is the claim you made.
        xadhominemx 5y ago
        So it’s about a theoretical future variant?
macilacilove 5y ago
> the immune system can get "stuck" with whatever initial antibodies it comes up with and doesn't adapt well Original antigenic sin. However I don't think it predicts that the alpha-based boosters we have will be any more effective, and I don't think that we are observing particularly impressive effectiveness either.

flatiron 5y ago

I feel like we are going to have to get a yearly booster and they will be guessing the strains every year just like the flu. Note: 100% a gut feeling

ethbr0 5y ago
That was pretty obvious since March 2020. Highly contagious respiratory viruses with non-human reservoirs don't go back into the bottle, once they're circulating.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  No, but flu is the only one that evolves so quickly that we need a new shot every year.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    Coronaviruses give people colds too, they just weren't as widespread or symptomatic as influenza. Now, they probably will be.
walterbell 5y ago
Jan 23rd, https://www.rt.com/news/546859-pfizer-ceo-future-vaccines/ https://www.rt.com/news/546859-pfizer-ceo-future-vaccines/ > In a series of interviews with Israeli TV channels, Albert Bourla said it would “not be a good scenario” if people were to get boosters every four to five months. “What I'm hoping [is] that we will have a vaccine that you will have to do once a year,” ... Bourla argued that it is both easier to sell the idea and “easier for people to remember” if a vaccine is required only once per year, calling it “an ideal situation” from “a public health perspective.”
fpgaminer 5y ago
There's some distant hope for a "super" vaccine against the entire coronavirus (sub)family: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/pan-coronavirus-super-vaccine https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/pan-coronavir...
- iso1210 5y ago
  Imagine if the development work for covid vaccines ends up with more effective vaccines against things like flu and even the common cold
- standard458 5y ago
  I'm hoping for some serious advances in masks. And the social acceptability of walking around looking like Bane.

ukie 5y ago

loceng 5y ago

Will there be confirmed better oversight than with Pfizer's 12-15 year old clinical trial, re: Maddie De Garay's story? https://youtu.be/L2GKPYzL_JQ https://youtu.be/L2GKPYzL_JQ - "How many more adverse effects have been covered up during the trials? - Maddie de Garay's story."

walterbell 5y ago
The Maddie de Garay story is tragic and history will not look kindly on the unnecessary censorship of an injured child in Pfizer's original clinical trial. They could have used that incident as an opportunity to demonstrate the protocols for investigation and prevent of similar injuries. It's promising that there will be slightly higher regulatory standards for the Omicron vaccine: clinical trial in humans must be completed before approval and clinical trial data must be submitted at the same time, i.e. no 75-year delays. > the debate appears to have shifted with the European Medicines Agency (EMA) saying on Friday that international regulators now preferred clinical studies to be carried out before approval of a new vaccine ... Inclusion of clinical trial data in the regulatory filings may have an impact on the delivery of initial batches.
- loceng 5y ago
  Don't you think everyone in society would be shocked to also know that, aside from suppressing her severe adverse reactions, they only tracked participants for 7 days - along with other blatantly obvious problems with the vaccine trial designs?
  - walterbell 5y ago
    Yes, we need more transparency on all the trials, e.g. comparing methodology and benchmarking against standard practices. Justifications for corner cutting in 2020 trials should not apply to 2022+ trials. If this issue were more widely understood, there would be several open-source repos aggregating "lessons learned" and public info about the trials, across countries and vendors.
    - 5y ago

ralph84 5y ago

> I forget what it's called, but there's this phenomenon in immunology where the immune system can get "stuck" with whatever initial antibodies it comes up with and doesn't adapt well. It's called original antigenic sin[0]. It's one of the reasons that mass vaccination against a variant that is no longer circulating may not be the wisest strategy. But anyone who dares mention it is shouted down as anti-vaxx. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin

xadhominemx 5y ago
I guess that’s a theoretical possibility for a different virus, but in truth the mRNA vaccines provide robust protection from serious illness from omicron: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  It is a possibility for any virus
  - xadhominemx 5y ago
    Well it’s empirically not the case for Omicron, as the vaccines have continued to provide robust protection against hospitalization and death
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      Neither the post you replied to or I said it applied to omicron. in fact, the parent said that it didn't. The fact that it didnt apply to omnicron, does not mean that it couldn't apply to covid, which is the claim you made.
      - xadhominemx 5y ago
        So it’s about a theoretical future variant?

macilacilove 5y ago

> the immune system can get "stuck" with whatever initial antibodies it comes up with and doesn't adapt well Original antigenic sin. However I don't think it predicts that the alpha-based boosters we have will be any more effective, and I don't think that we are observing particularly impressive effectiveness either.