5 ms·

The batteries are "replaceable"; your own comment acknowledges that. What you mean is batteries the user can easily replace, which means you have to make compro

by Bud 5y ago

The batteries are "replaceable"; your own comment acknowledges that. What you mean is batteries the user can easily replace, which means you have to make compromises in the design of the phone and its structural integrity. The market has chosen against that. What you're talking about is forcing people to accept your personal preference, by law, because your design preference didn't win in the market. Personally, I oppose that.

silisili 5y ago
I feel like there's a missing middle ground here. Sure, we don't have to go back to the days of peel off or slide off backs. But why not allow the phone to be opened easier? Perhaps a few tiny screws and a gasket vs...glue? Replacing a battery is technically possible still, it just requires a ton of patience, a heat gun, maybe a suction cup, maybe a razor knife. And even then you run the risk of breaking the back glass in the process(been there, done that). I don't think we need to go back to being able to hot swap batteries on the fly, but surely we can come up with something everyday people can realistically do at home.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Modern iphones all require a fancy laser to remove the back glass. [1]. You won't be doing that with a screwdriver at home. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X07j5deVIfU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X07j5deVIfU
  - vecinu 5y ago
    By remove you mean completely melt and destroy. There's no easy way to remove it without breaking the entire glass back, this is bonkers.
  - oneplane 5y ago
    No need to go lie on the internet. You don't need to remove the glass to open the case, it's still two screws and a sealing gasket. Removing the glass is more like an industrial process to replace a broken glass backing but retaining the rest of the back cover. After you remove the cover you still have to remove a few pieces of the top layer of components, as described in guides like this iPhone 13 Pro battery replacement one: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+13+Pro+Battery+Replacement/146608 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+13+Pro+Battery+Replaceme... Now, say you tried a DIY repair and you broke the glass, that'd be a different case of suckage, but that doesn't really mean that suddenly batteries aren't replaceable. There could be a discussion around ease of replacement but there is ease of manufacture and sealing properties to consider as well.
    - vecinu 5y ago
      That guide has 36 steps which include melting adhesive, using suction cups and using a pick to detach the display from the case. On top of that there are a number of peripherals to remove before even getting to the battery. To me that seems extremely difficult.
      - oneplane 5y ago
        Rewiring the wire-wrap backplane of a (in comparison) low-power computing system from 60 years ago with just a wire wrapping tool and wire with only 2 steps is 'extremely simple' if we were to use your measurement of tools, steps and material, yet I doubt anyone replacing their phone batteries could do that... It's all relative.
- acdha 5y ago
  Or simply supporting local repair shops: it might require some special tools or equipment but if the phone store in every mall can have that, it's a lot more accessible than if you need to pay top dollar and/or not have the device for a few days.
  - mh- 5y ago
    like https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkpbgy/apple-will-tell-you-how-to-fix-iphones-sell-parts-to-the-general-public https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkpbgy/apple-will-tell-you-h...?
    - acdha 5y ago
      Exactly - there are good arguments for tightly sealed devices but that should be paired with right to repair laws requiring minimum part & tool availability and capping prices.
Johnny555 5y ago
The market has chosen against that Did it though? Or did the manufacturers choose that for us by choosing to market phones based on millimeters of measurement and grams of weight and one piece glass backs that most people cover up with a case anyway. This seems kind of like the car manufacturers saying that they are only meeting demand when they sell large SUV's and trucks, while running ads showing SUV's on dirt trails touting the freedom that a large SUV/truck gives drivers, even though most high end SUV's and trucks won't go any farther offroad than a gravel parking lot at a winery. If phone manufacturers started competing on environmental costs of their phones instead of being the smallest/lightest, then maybe replaceable batteries would come back.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  We like big, light, thin and waterproof phones. It's only natural to want something comfortable to use which you can see clearly on and which doesn't break your nose when it falls on your face in bed. A minority (me included) would prefer smaller phones with a massive battery, no matter the thickness - and yet I can't stop marvelling at how cool my new big, light, thin phone is. If my phone didn't break in 3 years I'll think about buying a battery on eBay and replace it (or get it done by someone, if I'm not capable of doing it). SUVs are appealing because they're big and cost a lot of money. It's often a display of superiority and wealth. Those people would drive a tank if they could. People are not buying SUVs or phones because of advertising, but because of their intrinsic qualities (whether physical or social).
  - bbarn 5y ago
    > SUVs are appealing because they're big and cost a lot of money. It's often a display of superiority and wealth. Those people would drive a tank if they could. Uh, that and they're useful? The only thing comparable for the combo of carrying capacity, people seating, and towing of your average SUV is a full size van. Which drives like shit, has terrible visibility side and rear, and is often even more of a break-in target. Oh, and it costs the same or more as that SUV that's easy to park, easy to drive, fits all your kids or family or bikes and luggage and can still haul a light trailer. The modern SUV is the evolution of the station wagon. Some of the early models were just wealth signals, I can kind of agree with that, but generally there's no better option for someone who regularly hauls 4+ people and a bunch of crap everywhere.

by Bud 5y ago

silisili 5y ago

I feel like there's a missing middle ground here. Sure, we don't have to go back to the days of peel off or slide off backs. But why not allow the phone to be opened easier? Perhaps a few tiny screws and a gasket vs...glue? Replacing a battery is technically possible still, it just requires a ton of patience, a heat gun, maybe a suction cup, maybe a razor knife. And even then you run the risk of breaking the back glass in the process(been there, done that). I don't think we need to go back to being able to hot swap batteries on the fly, but surely we can come up with something everyday people can realistically do at home.

londons_explore 5y ago
Modern iphones all require a fancy laser to remove the back glass. [1]. You won't be doing that with a screwdriver at home. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X07j5deVIfU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X07j5deVIfU
- vecinu 5y ago
  By remove you mean completely melt and destroy. There's no easy way to remove it without breaking the entire glass back, this is bonkers.
- oneplane 5y ago
  No need to go lie on the internet. You don't need to remove the glass to open the case, it's still two screws and a sealing gasket. Removing the glass is more like an industrial process to replace a broken glass backing but retaining the rest of the back cover. After you remove the cover you still have to remove a few pieces of the top layer of components, as described in guides like this iPhone 13 Pro battery replacement one: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+13+Pro+Battery+Replacement/146608 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+13+Pro+Battery+Replaceme... Now, say you tried a DIY repair and you broke the glass, that'd be a different case of suckage, but that doesn't really mean that suddenly batteries aren't replaceable. There could be a discussion around ease of replacement but there is ease of manufacture and sealing properties to consider as well.
  - vecinu 5y ago
    That guide has 36 steps which include melting adhesive, using suction cups and using a pick to detach the display from the case. On top of that there are a number of peripherals to remove before even getting to the battery. To me that seems extremely difficult.
    - oneplane 5y ago
      Rewiring the wire-wrap backplane of a (in comparison) low-power computing system from 60 years ago with just a wire wrapping tool and wire with only 2 steps is 'extremely simple' if we were to use your measurement of tools, steps and material, yet I doubt anyone replacing their phone batteries could do that... It's all relative.
acdha 5y ago
Or simply supporting local repair shops: it might require some special tools or equipment but if the phone store in every mall can have that, it's a lot more accessible than if you need to pay top dollar and/or not have the device for a few days.
- mh- 5y ago
  like https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkpbgy/apple-will-tell-you-how-to-fix-iphones-sell-parts-to-the-general-public https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkpbgy/apple-will-tell-you-h...?
  - acdha 5y ago
    Exactly - there are good arguments for tightly sealed devices but that should be paired with right to repair laws requiring minimum part & tool availability and capping prices.

Johnny555 5y ago

The market has chosen against that Did it though? Or did the manufacturers choose that for us by choosing to market phones based on millimeters of measurement and grams of weight and one piece glass backs that most people cover up with a case anyway. This seems kind of like the car manufacturers saying that they are only meeting demand when they sell large SUV's and trucks, while running ads showing SUV's on dirt trails touting the freedom that a large SUV/truck gives drivers, even though most high end SUV's and trucks won't go any farther offroad than a gravel parking lot at a winery. If phone manufacturers started competing on environmental costs of their phones instead of being the smallest/lightest, then maybe replaceable batteries would come back.

jokethrowaway 5y ago
We like big, light, thin and waterproof phones. It's only natural to want something comfortable to use which you can see clearly on and which doesn't break your nose when it falls on your face in bed. A minority (me included) would prefer smaller phones with a massive battery, no matter the thickness - and yet I can't stop marvelling at how cool my new big, light, thin phone is. If my phone didn't break in 3 years I'll think about buying a battery on eBay and replace it (or get it done by someone, if I'm not capable of doing it). SUVs are appealing because they're big and cost a lot of money. It's often a display of superiority and wealth. Those people would drive a tank if they could. People are not buying SUVs or phones because of advertising, but because of their intrinsic qualities (whether physical or social).
- bbarn 5y ago
  > SUVs are appealing because they're big and cost a lot of money. It's often a display of superiority and wealth. Those people would drive a tank if they could. Uh, that and they're useful? The only thing comparable for the combo of carrying capacity, people seating, and towing of your average SUV is a full size van. Which drives like shit, has terrible visibility side and rear, and is often even more of a break-in target. Oh, and it costs the same or more as that SUV that's easy to park, easy to drive, fits all your kids or family or bikes and luggage and can still haul a light trailer. The modern SUV is the evolution of the station wagon. Some of the early models were just wealth signals, I can kind of agree with that, but generally there's no better option for someone who regularly hauls 4+ people and a bunch of crap everywhere.