5 ms·

Vaccines have failed to end the pandemic. Mask mandates and lockdowns have also failed to end the pandemic. I think the best approach going forward is: (1) inc

Vaccines have failed to end the pandemic. Mask mandates and lockdowns have also failed to end the pandemic. I think the best approach going forward is: (1) increased capacity at hospitals, (2) a generalized reduction in crowded events, and (3) improvements to all indoor ventilation systems.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sylens 5y ago
increased capacity at hospitals staffed by who? nurses and doctors are burning out left and right. More beds doesn't do a lot of good if you can't attend to them
- atom_arranger 5y ago
  We're talking about treating a specific illness. If it's such a problem we could train people to just treat covid, maybe a month or two long course, then pay them good money. If there's really a supply problem that should solve it.
rllearneratwork 5y ago
Mask mandates and lockdowns have an enormous costs. * It is estimated that lockdowns killed at least 238,000 kids in South Asia [1] * In rich parts of the world kids, especially from poor families, suffer from a huge loss in learning. Our school's district (in Bay Area) psychologist said that most of their 3-5 year old suffer from speech and social delays. Try booking speech or ABA therapy for a kid in Bay Area - they are all booked for months in advance. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56425115 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56425115
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  > Try booking speech or ABA therapy for a kid in Bay Area Wasn’t this already the case nearly nationwide?
  - rllearneratwork 5y ago
    Not sure what do you mean by "already", but according to the ones we spoke - they are seeing a huge spike in demand this last year (which they correlate with masks and lack of in-person learning in very young kids). [*] "Masks Can Be Detrimental to Babies’ Speech and Language Development" https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/masks-can-be-detrimental-to-babies-speech-and-language-development1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/masks-can-be-detr...
    - alphabettsy 5y ago
      Couldn’t the spike in demand be related to all the articles talking about this issue? I believe kids are better off in school and that the pandemic and response has certainly had an effect, but I can’t imagine that most parents would even know to consult a speech therapist otherwise unless suggested by the school as is usually the case.
  - Kye 5y ago
    I've never heard good things about ABA from people who actually went through it, so maybe this is for the best.
namesbc 5y ago
1. We have never had a lockdown in the US 2. We have never had a mask mandate in the US 3. We have never had a vaccine mandate in the US You can't claim they didn't work when we haven't tried yet.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  Never had a lockdown? Tell that to all the parents whose kids didn’t go to school for months and months and months.
- HoobaTemp 5y ago
  @champagnois didn't make a reference to "the US", you did. Other countries have tried lockdowns and mandates. Off the top of my head, Australia would be a great data source; They have tried territory-wide lockdowns, mandates, and even involuntary removal to quarantine facilities. Don't know what the outcomes would be in regard to cases and deaths per capita adjusted for comorbidity prevalence, etc. but it would be worth digging into. Unfortunately many of the related articles and studies I've found present and defend conclusions with such vigor that there is no room for necessary discussion; they seem more focused on supporting one preordained conclusion or another. That having been said, I've seen equally qualified and credentialed researchers land on either side, providing good arguments for and against all that's mentioned above. The science many want me to "believe in", often turns out to be political "science", not the process of science. Editing to add: I believe that "believe in the science", for most that repeat this phrase, actually means "believe in the outcome I support". Edit again: Ugh. I was just asked "so what's your point?". So: @champagnois hasn't supported his statement, and neither have you. I was trying to say why not take the data that should exist for, say, Australia, and take a step closer to actually finding out if lockdowns, masking, mandates had statistically significant effects on mortality and morbidity? For extra credit, try to include concomitant adverse events occurring as a result of these measures? (The AE count would be a SWAG, but you could at least get an idea for the magnitude).
- tablespoon 5y ago
  >> Vaccines have failed to end the pandemic. Mask mandates and lockdowns have also failed to end the pandemic. > 1. We have never had a lockdown in the US 2. We have never had a mask mandate in the US 3. We have never had a vaccine mandate in the US > You can't claim they didn't work when we haven't tried yet. Exactly. Also China actually did manage to end it's local epidemic with only lockdowns and mask mandates. If they'd been earlier or the rest of the world just got it done instead of bickering stupidly, the pandemic would be over by now. Instead we continue to bicker stupidly and as a result now have variants that neutralize many of our tactics.
ASalazarMX 5y ago
> Vaccines have failed to end the pandemic This is all I had to read of your comment. Vaccines have helped immensely in preventing severe cases, which is a step towards normalization. Did you want vaccines to make people immune to a rapidly spreading and adapting virus? How many flus have you had? Still not immune to them?
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  > How many flus have you had? Still not immune to them? Zero with symptoms. Unknown amount without. I've never been tested. For all I know I'm immune to all flus.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    Well, I envy you then. Every winter I get the flu that's doing the rounds at the time, except for 2020. Sometimes twice if there's a break in summer. Maybe asthmatics are weak against respiratory infections.
kjsingh 5y ago
I would say govt and the people failed to deploy vaccines and follow mask/distancing mandates.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sylens 5y ago

increased capacity at hospitals staffed by who? nurses and doctors are burning out left and right. More beds doesn't do a lot of good if you can't attend to them

atom_arranger 5y ago
We're talking about treating a specific illness. If it's such a problem we could train people to just treat covid, maybe a month or two long course, then pay them good money. If there's really a supply problem that should solve it.

rllearneratwork 5y ago

Mask mandates and lockdowns have an enormous costs. * It is estimated that lockdowns killed at least 238,000 kids in South Asia [1] * In rich parts of the world kids, especially from poor families, suffer from a huge loss in learning. Our school's district (in Bay Area) psychologist said that most of their 3-5 year old suffer from speech and social delays. Try booking speech or ABA therapy for a kid in Bay Area - they are all booked for months in advance. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56425115 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56425115

alphabettsy 5y ago
> Try booking speech or ABA therapy for a kid in Bay Area Wasn’t this already the case nearly nationwide?
- rllearneratwork 5y ago
  Not sure what do you mean by "already", but according to the ones we spoke - they are seeing a huge spike in demand this last year (which they correlate with masks and lack of in-person learning in very young kids). [*] "Masks Can Be Detrimental to Babies’ Speech and Language Development" https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/masks-can-be-detrimental-to-babies-speech-and-language-development1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/masks-can-be-detr...
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    Couldn’t the spike in demand be related to all the articles talking about this issue? I believe kids are better off in school and that the pandemic and response has certainly had an effect, but I can’t imagine that most parents would even know to consult a speech therapist otherwise unless suggested by the school as is usually the case.
- Kye 5y ago
  I've never heard good things about ABA from people who actually went through it, so maybe this is for the best.

namesbc 5y ago

1. We have never had a lockdown in the US 2. We have never had a mask mandate in the US 3. We have never had a vaccine mandate in the US You can't claim they didn't work when we haven't tried yet.

thehappypm 5y ago
Never had a lockdown? Tell that to all the parents whose kids didn’t go to school for months and months and months.
HoobaTemp 5y ago
@champagnois didn't make a reference to "the US", you did. Other countries have tried lockdowns and mandates. Off the top of my head, Australia would be a great data source; They have tried territory-wide lockdowns, mandates, and even involuntary removal to quarantine facilities. Don't know what the outcomes would be in regard to cases and deaths per capita adjusted for comorbidity prevalence, etc. but it would be worth digging into. Unfortunately many of the related articles and studies I've found present and defend conclusions with such vigor that there is no room for necessary discussion; they seem more focused on supporting one preordained conclusion or another. That having been said, I've seen equally qualified and credentialed researchers land on either side, providing good arguments for and against all that's mentioned above. The science many want me to "believe in", often turns out to be political "science", not the process of science. Editing to add: I believe that "believe in the science", for most that repeat this phrase, actually means "believe in the outcome I support". Edit again: Ugh. I was just asked "so what's your point?". So: @champagnois hasn't supported his statement, and neither have you. I was trying to say why not take the data that should exist for, say, Australia, and take a step closer to actually finding out if lockdowns, masking, mandates had statistically significant effects on mortality and morbidity? For extra credit, try to include concomitant adverse events occurring as a result of these measures? (The AE count would be a SWAG, but you could at least get an idea for the magnitude).
tablespoon 5y ago
>> Vaccines have failed to end the pandemic. Mask mandates and lockdowns have also failed to end the pandemic. > 1. We have never had a lockdown in the US 2. We have never had a mask mandate in the US 3. We have never had a vaccine mandate in the US > You can't claim they didn't work when we haven't tried yet. Exactly. Also China actually did manage to end it's local epidemic with only lockdowns and mask mandates. If they'd been earlier or the rest of the world just got it done instead of bickering stupidly, the pandemic would be over by now. Instead we continue to bicker stupidly and as a result now have variants that neutralize many of our tactics.

ASalazarMX 5y ago

> Vaccines have failed to end the pandemic This is all I had to read of your comment. Vaccines have helped immensely in preventing severe cases, which is a step towards normalization. Did you want vaccines to make people immune to a rapidly spreading and adapting virus? How many flus have you had? Still not immune to them?

xboxnolifes 5y ago
> How many flus have you had? Still not immune to them? Zero with symptoms. Unknown amount without. I've never been tested. For all I know I'm immune to all flus.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  Well, I envy you then. Every winter I get the flu that's doing the rounds at the time, except for 2020. Sometimes twice if there's a break in summer. Maybe asthmatics are weak against respiratory infections.

kjsingh 5y ago

I would say govt and the people failed to deploy vaccines and follow mask/distancing mandates.