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This is sort of what I wonder about the Tensor in the new Pixels... but after Pixel 3 I'm not willing to gamble that much money on what looks like yet-another o

This is sort of what I wonder about the Tensor in the new Pixels... but after Pixel 3 I'm not willing to gamble that much money on what looks like yet-another of Google's attempts to shift blame about why they can't support their phones. If Pixel "6a" has Tensor and is priced like a phone that will only be supported for 3 years, I'll consider it. But frankly it's really hard to justify not getting an iPhone anymore. I have three kids and they all want iPhones and all their social life is on iMessage. Not to mention that all the apps I have to use for work are better supported in iPhone and have issues on Android but IT doesn't really care. It's becoming really difficult to justify not just getting my wife and I iPhones in the next cycle and planning to hand them down.

RHSeeger 5y ago
Apple makes some really nice devices, but there's a lot of people (myself included) that have a strong aversion to their "you don't want this, you want this other thing that we decided" mentality. Their software commonly does something totally different than what you tell it to do, because they decided it's better. Because of that, I will never own an iphone. Its frustrating that all the big companies act like "we're big, so we'll do what we want, no matter how annoying it is to the end user" ... and the small companies really can't compete/disrupt the market because they're not big enough.
- fluidcruft 5y ago
  I guess I'm at the point where I just don't care to futz with the device much anymore and try to limit my use of the phone. In the early days you'd load custom ROMs and tweak things and that was a lot of fun. Nowadays I just want something that is secure and works. Nexus and Pixel devices have always been very good at that for me. But now that I don't care so much about that it means the focus is on device lifetime, security and long-term cost. Apple wins those. But also so many of the people around me use iOS devices now that I end up having to learn how to use them anyway. Yikes I sound like an Apple shill... but the opposite is true. lol
  - RHSeeger 5y ago
    As a more mundane example... My wife went into iTunes and moved a bunch of songs onto her phone. Then she went out and tried to play those songs... and it tried to download them off the cloud (using data, which is a limited resource). Apparently, copying to the phone didn't _actually_ copy them, just put sort of "shortcut" there pointing at it on the cloud. That was definitely _not_ what she wanted, but the software decided otherwise.
    - SilasX 5y ago
      Similar pet peeve: how you can have a tab open on iOS Safari, even for a static page, leave it for 20 seconds, and come back, and then it has to re-download the entire page. It somehow won’t even cache what you had to local storage.
      - jeromegv 5y ago
        I mean.. that's not a feature. That's a bug (likely due to RAM being full). I rarely if ever have this issue, but I do remember it happening at some point, but that's definitely not a feature that iOS thinks is better.
        SilasX 5y ago
        Really? I mean, I've seen it over ten years of usage, and it's never been any other way, so that sounds like a deliberate decision. At the very least, not using internal storage -- when RAM is needed for something else -- is a decision.
        zozbot234 5y ago
        Mobile device OS's do not swap to storage because the typical mobile storage is bottom-of-the-barrel eMMC and the wear-and-tear of swapping on the flash would be a killer.
        5y ago
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  I get this, but honestly it's more important for me to have a phone that works... I can deal with inexplicable software changes, I make some of my own. At one point I had the same iPhone for 4 years. When I tried Android I couldn't get the same device to stick around for more than a year. After my 5X bootloop fiasco I tried another manufacturer and found out I couldn't even upgrade my software to patch a security issue because I had to wait on the vendor to add their crapware before releasing the update. I waited 6 months after Google released their update and then gave up... I don't know how Android users deal with the update nonsense.
  - thefuzz 5y ago
    > I get this, but honestly it's more important for me to have a phone that works This right here is what sums this topic up for me.
  - RHSeeger 5y ago
    Different experiences for different people. I had my last Android phone for 5 years, and never had a problem until the last month; when it was just too slow and would reboot every now and again. It had security updates for the first 4 years. My wife just switched off her iphone to an android because there were just too many places where it would ... just do it's own thing instead of what she told it to (like I noted in another response; placing songs on the cloud instead of on her phone like she told it to). It didn't "just work" in a lot of cases, for any sane definition of that phrase.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      > It didn't "just work" in a lot of cases, for any sane definition of that phrase. I was thinking about this the other day, and how Apple's departure from skeuomorphism made a lot of "just works" analogies a lot more dilute. I've never been particularly fond of Apple's design chops, be it from 2008 or 2018, but there's something to be said about how digital Corinthian leather and wood textures makes a person perceive a device. It also made their design philosophy fairly straightforward: if you're designing a digital bookshelf, it should work similarly to a physical one. There was no ambiguous frosted-glass layer of UI, nor "lickable" candy buttons littering your experience. It was just... functional. Modern Apple seems pretty disinterested in that stuff though. Relative to the rest of the tech industry, they're the same clowns in a different circus.
- acdha 5y ago
  > Apple makes some really nice devices, but there's a lot of people (myself included) that have a strong aversion to their "you don't want this, you want this other thing that we decided" mentality. Their software commonly does something totally different than what you tell it to do, because they decided it's better. Because of that, I will never own an iphone. I feel like this gets talked about a lot in the abstract but it's rare that I actually run into a limitation in normal usage, and when it is I usually agree with the decision behind it (e.g. limiting cross-application data access for security reasons or moving away from kernel extensions). I think the best example is not supporting different browser engines but I have very mixed emotions there because I'd love to be able to use Firefox but iOS is basically the main thing keeping “the web” from meaning “what the Chrome team chooses to support”.
tempnow987 5y ago
The update period on iphones is mind boggling good if you are coming from Chinese android phones for example. I've seen android phones ship a version behind and never get an update. Apple were releasing updates to the 6s in 2021 still. That's a 7 year old device. Security updates only pretty much - but still its crazy. My wife will not upgrade her old phone as a result (I get one every year through work and just sell my old one).
- vanilla_nut 5y ago
  The 6S (and the SE, which also uses the A9) is still receiving all the latest OS updates, not just security updates, in 2022. I for one won't "upgrade" to a bigger phone with no fingerprint sensor and no headphone jack. I don't agree with many things Apple does, but their iPhone support is pretty damn good.
- Osiris 5y ago
  I fixed the screen on an old iPhone 7 Plus. After rebooting it, it updated to iOS 15. As an Android user that's always made me jealous.
  - tempnow987 5y ago
    I know - it's just crazy and a totally different world. It also really helps with resale value. I can't believe what I was getting for my old iphones.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Apple released another security update for the 2013 iPhone 5s last September.
- wiredfool 5y ago
  I think I got an update to my 6splus last night, it’s still supported on iOS 15. same with the original SEs, the kids have them and still supported.
- myko 5y ago
  The difference is Apple OS updates on older devices don't always have all the features the new OS gets on newer hardware (which makes sense in many cases) while older Android phones can run most of the latest updates to Android (e.g., Jetpack Compose) A SwiftUI app vs Compose app right now is night and day, bugs from iOS 13.5 to 13.6 are catastrophic meanwhile Android devices with extremely old operating systems run the latest UI toolkit with very few issues.

RHSeeger 5y ago

Apple makes some really nice devices, but there's a lot of people (myself included) that have a strong aversion to their "you don't want this, you want this other thing that we decided" mentality. Their software commonly does something totally different than what you tell it to do, because they decided it's better. Because of that, I will never own an iphone. Its frustrating that all the big companies act like "we're big, so we'll do what we want, no matter how annoying it is to the end user" ... and the small companies really can't compete/disrupt the market because they're not big enough.

fluidcruft 5y ago
I guess I'm at the point where I just don't care to futz with the device much anymore and try to limit my use of the phone. In the early days you'd load custom ROMs and tweak things and that was a lot of fun. Nowadays I just want something that is secure and works. Nexus and Pixel devices have always been very good at that for me. But now that I don't care so much about that it means the focus is on device lifetime, security and long-term cost. Apple wins those. But also so many of the people around me use iOS devices now that I end up having to learn how to use them anyway. Yikes I sound like an Apple shill... but the opposite is true. lol
- RHSeeger 5y ago
  As a more mundane example... My wife went into iTunes and moved a bunch of songs onto her phone. Then she went out and tried to play those songs... and it tried to download them off the cloud (using data, which is a limited resource). Apparently, copying to the phone didn't _actually_ copy them, just put sort of "shortcut" there pointing at it on the cloud. That was definitely _not_ what she wanted, but the software decided otherwise.
  - SilasX 5y ago
    Similar pet peeve: how you can have a tab open on iOS Safari, even for a static page, leave it for 20 seconds, and come back, and then it has to re-download the entire page. It somehow won’t even cache what you had to local storage.
    - jeromegv 5y ago
      I mean.. that's not a feature. That's a bug (likely due to RAM being full). I rarely if ever have this issue, but I do remember it happening at some point, but that's definitely not a feature that iOS thinks is better.
      - SilasX 5y ago
        Really? I mean, I've seen it over ten years of usage, and it's never been any other way, so that sounds like a deliberate decision. At the very least, not using internal storage -- when RAM is needed for something else -- is a decision.
        zozbot234 5y ago
        Mobile device OS's do not swap to storage because the typical mobile storage is bottom-of-the-barrel eMMC and the wear-and-tear of swapping on the flash would be a killer.
        5y ago
micromacrofoot 5y ago
I get this, but honestly it's more important for me to have a phone that works... I can deal with inexplicable software changes, I make some of my own. At one point I had the same iPhone for 4 years. When I tried Android I couldn't get the same device to stick around for more than a year. After my 5X bootloop fiasco I tried another manufacturer and found out I couldn't even upgrade my software to patch a security issue because I had to wait on the vendor to add their crapware before releasing the update. I waited 6 months after Google released their update and then gave up... I don't know how Android users deal with the update nonsense.
- thefuzz 5y ago
  > I get this, but honestly it's more important for me to have a phone that works This right here is what sums this topic up for me.
- RHSeeger 5y ago
  Different experiences for different people. I had my last Android phone for 5 years, and never had a problem until the last month; when it was just too slow and would reboot every now and again. It had security updates for the first 4 years. My wife just switched off her iphone to an android because there were just too many places where it would ... just do it's own thing instead of what she told it to (like I noted in another response; placing songs on the cloud instead of on her phone like she told it to). It didn't "just work" in a lot of cases, for any sane definition of that phrase.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    > It didn't "just work" in a lot of cases, for any sane definition of that phrase. I was thinking about this the other day, and how Apple's departure from skeuomorphism made a lot of "just works" analogies a lot more dilute. I've never been particularly fond of Apple's design chops, be it from 2008 or 2018, but there's something to be said about how digital Corinthian leather and wood textures makes a person perceive a device. It also made their design philosophy fairly straightforward: if you're designing a digital bookshelf, it should work similarly to a physical one. There was no ambiguous frosted-glass layer of UI, nor "lickable" candy buttons littering your experience. It was just... functional. Modern Apple seems pretty disinterested in that stuff though. Relative to the rest of the tech industry, they're the same clowns in a different circus.
acdha 5y ago
> Apple makes some really nice devices, but there's a lot of people (myself included) that have a strong aversion to their "you don't want this, you want this other thing that we decided" mentality. Their software commonly does something totally different than what you tell it to do, because they decided it's better. Because of that, I will never own an iphone. I feel like this gets talked about a lot in the abstract but it's rare that I actually run into a limitation in normal usage, and when it is I usually agree with the decision behind it (e.g. limiting cross-application data access for security reasons or moving away from kernel extensions). I think the best example is not supporting different browser engines but I have very mixed emotions there because I'd love to be able to use Firefox but iOS is basically the main thing keeping “the web” from meaning “what the Chrome team chooses to support”.

tempnow987 5y ago

The update period on iphones is mind boggling good if you are coming from Chinese android phones for example. I've seen android phones ship a version behind and never get an update. Apple were releasing updates to the 6s in 2021 still. That's a 7 year old device. Security updates only pretty much - but still its crazy. My wife will not upgrade her old phone as a result (I get one every year through work and just sell my old one).

vanilla_nut 5y ago
The 6S (and the SE, which also uses the A9) is still receiving all the latest OS updates, not just security updates, in 2022. I for one won't "upgrade" to a bigger phone with no fingerprint sensor and no headphone jack. I don't agree with many things Apple does, but their iPhone support is pretty damn good.
Osiris 5y ago
I fixed the screen on an old iPhone 7 Plus. After rebooting it, it updated to iOS 15. As an Android user that's always made me jealous.
- tempnow987 5y ago
  I know - it's just crazy and a totally different world. It also really helps with resale value. I can't believe what I was getting for my old iphones.
GeekyBear 5y ago
Apple released another security update for the 2013 iPhone 5s last September.
wiredfool 5y ago
I think I got an update to my 6splus last night, it’s still supported on iOS 15. same with the original SEs, the kids have them and still supported.
myko 5y ago
The difference is Apple OS updates on older devices don't always have all the features the new OS gets on newer hardware (which makes sense in many cases) while older Android phones can run most of the latest updates to Android (e.g., Jetpack Compose) A SwiftUI app vs Compose app right now is night and day, bugs from iOS 13.5 to 13.6 are catastrophic meanwhile Android devices with extremely old operating systems run the latest UI toolkit with very few issues.