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Honestly, Google needs really needs to do better. Samsung has raised the bar by supporting its devices with 4 years of patches: https://www.theverge.com/2021/2

Honestly, Google needs really needs to do better. Samsung has raised the bar by supporting its devices with 4 years of patches: https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/22/22295639/samsung-galaxy-device-2019-four-years-security-updates https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/22/22295639/samsung-galaxy-d.... And frankly, how hard/expensive would it be to support these devices for far longer? Google is a massive company, and I see little reason why that can't employ a team of devs backporting patches to older phones. Current versions of Windows and Linux run happily on decades-old hardware, so a phone should at least be able to get patches for known security issues for a decade. Dev resources would be far better spent on this than yet another hamfisted attempt to build a messenger app that they'll kill in a couple years anyway.

Hokusai 5y ago
The problem is usually complexity and opportunity cost. Once you have a team that can keep Android patched, someone at Google is going to use them to speed up another product or create a new one. Why not add another team more? First, the situation will repeat itself, other needs would be prioritized higher. And there is a limit on the number of teams an organization can manage without non-linear manager cost increase. Linux runs on old hardware because big corporations own old hardware and are willing to pay to not have to replace it. Replacing a phone is a cost for the individual owner. And my experience with company phones is that they are seen as a retention perk. So newer flashier phones are worth the cost, it could be different in other industries, thou. One common solution to these problems is regulation. The government forces phone makers to patch the software for X years. Now there is a strong incentive to do so if the phone makers want to continue operating in that market.
- SilasX 5y ago
  A lot of those costs go down with good interface design and interoperability.
- nouveaux 5y ago
  > The problem is usually complexity and opportunity cost. > Once you have a team that can keep Android patched, someone at Google is going to use them to speed up another product or create a new one. Apple is still supporting phones made in 2016. Given Google size and profit margin, it is a business choice.
robotnikman 5y ago
To be fair, part of it is due to supporting the SoC, and that means dealing with Qualcomm. Samsung has the advantage of being able to develop their own SoC's and so can support them for far longer with updates and such
- coder543 5y ago
  This excuse doesn't hold much water anymore since the Pixel 6 is based on Google's own SoC, yet it also only offers 3 years of Android version updates. Why can't Google do like Apple and offer many years of version updates? The iPhone 6s is still running the latest version of iOS.
- phh 5y ago
  Samsung definitely makes Qualcomm devices. So that argument is bullshit.
boudin 5y ago
I really hope there would be some regulations enforcing a decade of software support, not just for the operating system but also to provide drivers for hardware. After that, having to continue providing support or provide the source code with a permissive license and documentation.
- someguydave 5y ago
  I’m pretty free-market oriented but I think this might be the right answer. If you sell a network-connected device you should be on the hook for at least security updates for 10 years.
  - dsubburam 5y ago
    Good free-market solution is to price-in the cost of manufacturing emissions and eventual disposal of the hardware into the sticker price of the device by e.g. a pollution tax assessed by a regulatory agency on a per-item basis. Manufacturers will then be incentivized to make and support lasting hardware as consumers get averse to paying the pollution tax repeatedly. (And, they will try to make more sustainable hardware that gets assessed less tax in the first place).
    - boudin 5y ago
      I don't think this kind of solution works to be honest. This creates a right to pollute or generate waste more than focusing on solving the original problem.
      - someguydave 5y ago
        So you would rather make pollution free and tax labor? (existing status quo)
        boudin 5y ago
        No, where did I say that? Having clear regulation and forbid this kind of practice that apply to everybody, not just the poor. A tax would not solve anything, it would just give a free pass to the wealthier part of the world to pollute and generate waste. The wealthy parts of the world are the biggest source of waste and polution in the first place. It would also allow powerful companies to bargain between countries and continue playing the dog and cat game they've been doing. Trying to force companies like Apple or Gooogle to pay existing taxes is already a lost cause. Those companies don't care about it and would rather invest in avoidance schemes. On the contrary, if you hit where things are sold, like closing a whole market like the EU until you abide to a regulation, like the one mentionned in my comment, is much likely to have a real impact, and would be much faster to.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
Pixel 6 gets at least 5 years of security updates and 3 years of Android updates.
- Bud 5y ago
  This is not really an improvement. 3 years of OS updates is pathetic and unacceptable.
  - queuebert 5y ago
    Not even one U.S. presidential term.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    To me, security updates are imperative. The first security update that I don't receive is when I look for a new phone. OS updates are practically window dressing- I can go without.
  - trog 5y ago
    Based on Android 12, I'd rather zero years of OS updates and more years of security updates. Sick of each Android update requiring relearning where all the stuff I've been doing for the last year (or longer) has been moved to. Android 12 made one of my major workflows start failing - leaving browser tabs open and coming back to them later. Something about how Android 12 works (I'm guess to do with how it swaps out background apps) means now most of the time when I go back to my browser, it forces a page reload, meaning I lose context of whatever I was doing before. Bunch of other small irritating changes. I guess it doesn't matter now that it's out of support - I'm too scared to keep using it. Just gives me the shits.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Nowadays OS upgrade gives us near zero feature, especially since Google distributes some updates as Play Services and other mechanism. Only security update is fine, maybe they don't need Qualcomm's update for latest kernel.
t-writescode 5y ago
> Samsung has raised the bar by supporting its devices with 4 years of patches For all its warts, Apple set the bar and Android as a whole has never really reached it. The 6S is still supported right now, right? And we're on the 13?
- tim333 5y ago
  The 5s still gets security updates 8 years on. The 6S still gets the latest OS (iOS15). My old landline phones still work ~30 years on. The idea that electronics has to be chucked and replaced every 2 or 3 years is rather wasteful.
- wiredfool 5y ago
  Yep. Though, the 6s was sold for quite a long time, and I think it’s the guts of the original SE, so we’re probably still in the 5 years from last sale time frame. My 6splus is still in the “not a bad phone” range for what I need it for today, and I haven’t managed to destroy it in 4 years.
  - Nition 5y ago
    The original 2016 iPhone SE is still arguably the highest performance small smartphone ever released as well. Good thing it's still supported because there's nothing to replace it in the same or smaller dimensions.[1] [1] Here's everything since 2015 that fits in the size criteria: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2015&nHeightMax=125&nWidthMax=60&sFormFactors=1 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2015&nHeightM...
    - milkytron 5y ago
      It was really good value too. But I had to stop using it because some critical apps I need stopped supporting the smaller screen size and would be disfunctional.
      - Nition 5y ago
        I'm still using mine. I want a small phone and there's literally nothing to upgrade to, even on Android. The iPhone 13 Mini looks okay, but is still a bit larger.

Hokusai 5y ago

The problem is usually complexity and opportunity cost. Once you have a team that can keep Android patched, someone at Google is going to use them to speed up another product or create a new one. Why not add another team more? First, the situation will repeat itself, other needs would be prioritized higher. And there is a limit on the number of teams an organization can manage without non-linear manager cost increase. Linux runs on old hardware because big corporations own old hardware and are willing to pay to not have to replace it. Replacing a phone is a cost for the individual owner. And my experience with company phones is that they are seen as a retention perk. So newer flashier phones are worth the cost, it could be different in other industries, thou. One common solution to these problems is regulation. The government forces phone makers to patch the software for X years. Now there is a strong incentive to do so if the phone makers want to continue operating in that market.

SilasX 5y ago
A lot of those costs go down with good interface design and interoperability.
nouveaux 5y ago
> The problem is usually complexity and opportunity cost. > Once you have a team that can keep Android patched, someone at Google is going to use them to speed up another product or create a new one. Apple is still supporting phones made in 2016. Given Google size and profit margin, it is a business choice.

robotnikman 5y ago

To be fair, part of it is due to supporting the SoC, and that means dealing with Qualcomm. Samsung has the advantage of being able to develop their own SoC's and so can support them for far longer with updates and such

coder543 5y ago
This excuse doesn't hold much water anymore since the Pixel 6 is based on Google's own SoC, yet it also only offers 3 years of Android version updates. Why can't Google do like Apple and offer many years of version updates? The iPhone 6s is still running the latest version of iOS.
phh 5y ago
Samsung definitely makes Qualcomm devices. So that argument is bullshit.

boudin 5y ago

I really hope there would be some regulations enforcing a decade of software support, not just for the operating system but also to provide drivers for hardware. After that, having to continue providing support or provide the source code with a permissive license and documentation.

someguydave 5y ago
I’m pretty free-market oriented but I think this might be the right answer. If you sell a network-connected device you should be on the hook for at least security updates for 10 years.
- dsubburam 5y ago
  Good free-market solution is to price-in the cost of manufacturing emissions and eventual disposal of the hardware into the sticker price of the device by e.g. a pollution tax assessed by a regulatory agency on a per-item basis. Manufacturers will then be incentivized to make and support lasting hardware as consumers get averse to paying the pollution tax repeatedly. (And, they will try to make more sustainable hardware that gets assessed less tax in the first place).
  - boudin 5y ago
    I don't think this kind of solution works to be honest. This creates a right to pollute or generate waste more than focusing on solving the original problem.
    - someguydave 5y ago
      So you would rather make pollution free and tax labor? (existing status quo)
      - boudin 5y ago
        No, where did I say that? Having clear regulation and forbid this kind of practice that apply to everybody, not just the poor. A tax would not solve anything, it would just give a free pass to the wealthier part of the world to pollute and generate waste. The wealthy parts of the world are the biggest source of waste and polution in the first place. It would also allow powerful companies to bargain between countries and continue playing the dog and cat game they've been doing. Trying to force companies like Apple or Gooogle to pay existing taxes is already a lost cause. Those companies don't care about it and would rather invest in avoidance schemes. On the contrary, if you hit where things are sold, like closing a whole market like the EU until you abide to a regulation, like the one mentionned in my comment, is much likely to have a real impact, and would be much faster to.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

Pixel 6 gets at least 5 years of security updates and 3 years of Android updates.

Bud 5y ago
This is not really an improvement. 3 years of OS updates is pathetic and unacceptable.
- queuebert 5y ago
  Not even one U.S. presidential term.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  To me, security updates are imperative. The first security update that I don't receive is when I look for a new phone. OS updates are practically window dressing- I can go without.
- trog 5y ago
  Based on Android 12, I'd rather zero years of OS updates and more years of security updates. Sick of each Android update requiring relearning where all the stuff I've been doing for the last year (or longer) has been moved to. Android 12 made one of my major workflows start failing - leaving browser tabs open and coming back to them later. Something about how Android 12 works (I'm guess to do with how it swaps out background apps) means now most of the time when I go back to my browser, it forces a page reload, meaning I lose context of whatever I was doing before. Bunch of other small irritating changes. I guess it doesn't matter now that it's out of support - I'm too scared to keep using it. Just gives me the shits.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Nowadays OS upgrade gives us near zero feature, especially since Google distributes some updates as Play Services and other mechanism. Only security update is fine, maybe they don't need Qualcomm's update for latest kernel.

t-writescode 5y ago

> Samsung has raised the bar by supporting its devices with 4 years of patches For all its warts, Apple set the bar and Android as a whole has never really reached it. The 6S is still supported right now, right? And we're on the 13?

tim333 5y ago
The 5s still gets security updates 8 years on. The 6S still gets the latest OS (iOS15). My old landline phones still work ~30 years on. The idea that electronics has to be chucked and replaced every 2 or 3 years is rather wasteful.
wiredfool 5y ago
Yep. Though, the 6s was sold for quite a long time, and I think it’s the guts of the original SE, so we’re probably still in the 5 years from last sale time frame. My 6splus is still in the “not a bad phone” range for what I need it for today, and I haven’t managed to destroy it in 4 years.
- Nition 5y ago
  The original 2016 iPhone SE is still arguably the highest performance small smartphone ever released as well. Good thing it's still supported because there's nothing to replace it in the same or smaller dimensions.[1] [1] Here's everything since 2015 that fits in the size criteria: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2015&nHeightMax=125&nWidthMax=60&sFormFactors=1 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2015&nHeightM...
  - milkytron 5y ago
    It was really good value too. But I had to stop using it because some critical apps I need stopped supporting the smaller screen size and would be disfunctional.
    - Nition 5y ago
      I'm still using mine. I want a small phone and there's literally nothing to upgrade to, even on Android. The iPhone 13 Mini looks okay, but is still a bit larger.