5 ms·

I would be interested to see the difference between those who did switch and those who didn't. It could easily be 20% raises for those moving and 1% for those

I would be interested to see the difference between those who did switch and those who didn't. It could easily be 20% raises for those moving and 1% for those who are not.

PascLeRasc 5y ago
I received a 1% raise at my current job. My coworkers who worked evenings and weekends received a "100% positive adjustment of their raise" (2%).
- root_axis 5y ago
  A 1% raise seems insulting imo.
  - Ancalagon 5y ago
    It is
    - mgkimsal 5y ago
      I started at a company in mid January, and they did annual reviews in June/July. After review, I 'merited' a 4% raise. But... because I'd only been there since January, they prorated the 4% raise to 2%. I never quite understood their logic, but also didn't stay through the end of the year. EDIT: this was... 2004/2005 era.
      - jsdwarf 5y ago
        IMHO quite generous by them, in my former companies you skipped the raise talk if you joined less than 9 months ago. Makes sense, because you just negotiated your salary on entry.
        MattGaiser 5y ago
        > Makes sense, because you just negotiated your salary on entry. Not really, as in this field that is about halfway through your tenure. Market has certainly shifted a lot in 9 months past.
        giantg2 5y ago
        18 month tenure seems short, even for IT employees. Better off just staffing with contractors if that's truly expected.
        MattGaiser 5y ago
        Devs seem to last two years, but they make the decision to leave well before that, so you need to get a retention offer in before they start the job search.
        giantg2 5y ago
        Any data on that?
        MattGaiser 5y ago
        Only anecdotal, but that seems to be how long people last. There are no devs that I knew at either of my past two jobs that remain. Virtually all friends report similar experiences.
        giantg2 5y ago
        My experience goes the other way. 75%+ have been at my company for 5+ years.
      - akireu 5y ago
        Inventing arbitrary formulae to calculate your wage is merely a dishonest negotiation tactic. Govt companies do it all the time, don't read too much into it. Also, it's perfectly fine to renegotiate your wage once you're off your probation period, as once you're in, you have a better idea of your worth to the company. Just don't do it too often.
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      It's a clear signal, the company values you less than when it hired you. When leaving a company like that I find it best to frame it in a way that they were unhappy with you. "Hey look I know you are trying to spare my feelings, but that is 6 percent less than inflation, clearly you want me out of here but didn't have the courage to lay me off. Thanks for the heads up, I've found another role."
      - MattGaiser 5y ago
        It really seems like you are most valued the day you are hired, with your value declining by the day.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        The whole concept of value in terms of business transactions seems weird to me. It is ill defined and unactionable. Either you agree to buy or sell at a certain price, or not. “Value” plays no role in the determination of prices.
        MattGaiser 5y ago
        Well, what the business will pay for you declines the longer you stay.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Every choice in life is a gamble. Many or most businesses are betting that their labor vendors (employees) will accept less and less. Based on the statistics of the past 5 decades, this seems to have been a good bet.
        airstrike 5y ago
        Whether you agree to buy or sell at a certain price is entirely dependent on whether such price is higher or lower than the value of the trade, in your own subjective assessment. There are other meanings of the word "value" in business transactions, but that is probably the most common and fundamental one.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    1.5% raise receiver here. Yes I'm insulted.
  - AdrianB1 5y ago
    I got nothing for a couple of years in a row, then less than 1% the next; the HR guys said this is because there is a very low turnover, so there is no need to pay better. Companies to what they can, as much as they can.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  After a few rounds of this, developers basically join a company with a plan to leave as soon as they become reasonably productive.
- alana314 5y ago
  Is keeping your salary at pace with inflation a good argument? My raises have typically been 0-3% YoY but inflation in 2021 was 6.8%.
grezql 5y ago
wonderwonder 5y ago
It seems like companies are really having a hard time understanding that people are not going to just take financial hits out of loyalty to a company anymore. Companies still appear to be of the mindset that they can give small cost of living increases and people will stick around for years in hopes of getting promoted. With inflation at 9%, getting a 20% raise after 2 years with a promotion essentially just sets you back at your starting salary with more work and responsibility. Why would anyone stick around for that? Plus there are only so many positions available to be promoted into, statistically the odds are not good for most. Coupled with the fact that companies are very open that they have zero loyalty to any employee below c-suite, its not really surprising people are only keeping jobs for a couple years before being forced to look somewhere else.
- boring_twenties 5y ago
  > Why would anyone stick around for that? Lots of reasons. First of all, job hunting takes time and effort. If you're rusty at interviewing and need some practice, then even more so. People that have kids or other responsibilities outside of work have even less of both available. On top of that you have to face rejection, which for many people is emotionally difficult. Secondly, even if everything goes well, it's still a substantial risk. The new job might seem great at first, then turn out to be a nightmare a couple of months in. The old job might not be ideal, but you're used to it, and know you can live with it -- it's the devil you know. Same way that couples often stay in unsatisfying relationships for years, because it seems better than risking ending up alone.
  - wonderwonder 5y ago
    I have kids and need a raise each year to afford to buy them the things they need while still having a hope of retiring one day. "The new job might seem great at first, then turn out to be a nightmare a couple of months in" This is pretty much most of my jobs. The current one is probably the nicest I have had in a long time but I still need a raise as the thought of working until 65 just to be old and then die fills me with existential dread.

I would be interested to see the difference between those who did switch and those who didn't. It could easily be 20% raises for those moving and 1% for those who are not.

PascLeRasc 5y ago

I received a 1% raise at my current job. My coworkers who worked evenings and weekends received a "100% positive adjustment of their raise" (2%).

root_axis 5y ago
A 1% raise seems insulting imo.
- Ancalagon 5y ago
  It is
  - mgkimsal 5y ago
    I started at a company in mid January, and they did annual reviews in June/July. After review, I 'merited' a 4% raise. But... because I'd only been there since January, they prorated the 4% raise to 2%. I never quite understood their logic, but also didn't stay through the end of the year. EDIT: this was... 2004/2005 era.
    - jsdwarf 5y ago
      IMHO quite generous by them, in my former companies you skipped the raise talk if you joined less than 9 months ago. Makes sense, because you just negotiated your salary on entry.
      - MattGaiser 5y ago
        > Makes sense, because you just negotiated your salary on entry. Not really, as in this field that is about halfway through your tenure. Market has certainly shifted a lot in 9 months past.
        giantg2 5y ago
        18 month tenure seems short, even for IT employees. Better off just staffing with contractors if that's truly expected.
        MattGaiser 5y ago
        Devs seem to last two years, but they make the decision to leave well before that, so you need to get a retention offer in before they start the job search.
        giantg2 5y ago
        Any data on that?
        MattGaiser 5y ago
        Only anecdotal, but that seems to be how long people last. There are no devs that I knew at either of my past two jobs that remain. Virtually all friends report similar experiences.
        giantg2 5y ago
        My experience goes the other way. 75%+ have been at my company for 5+ years.
    - akireu 5y ago
      Inventing arbitrary formulae to calculate your wage is merely a dishonest negotiation tactic. Govt companies do it all the time, don't read too much into it. Also, it's perfectly fine to renegotiate your wage once you're off your probation period, as once you're in, you have a better idea of your worth to the company. Just don't do it too often.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    It's a clear signal, the company values you less than when it hired you. When leaving a company like that I find it best to frame it in a way that they were unhappy with you. "Hey look I know you are trying to spare my feelings, but that is 6 percent less than inflation, clearly you want me out of here but didn't have the courage to lay me off. Thanks for the heads up, I've found another role."
    - MattGaiser 5y ago
      It really seems like you are most valued the day you are hired, with your value declining by the day.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        The whole concept of value in terms of business transactions seems weird to me. It is ill defined and unactionable. Either you agree to buy or sell at a certain price, or not. “Value” plays no role in the determination of prices.
        MattGaiser 5y ago
        Well, what the business will pay for you declines the longer you stay.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Every choice in life is a gamble. Many or most businesses are betting that their labor vendors (employees) will accept less and less. Based on the statistics of the past 5 decades, this seems to have been a good bet.
        airstrike 5y ago
        Whether you agree to buy or sell at a certain price is entirely dependent on whether such price is higher or lower than the value of the trade, in your own subjective assessment. There are other meanings of the word "value" in business transactions, but that is probably the most common and fundamental one.
- giantg2 5y ago
  1.5% raise receiver here. Yes I'm insulted.
- AdrianB1 5y ago
  I got nothing for a couple of years in a row, then less than 1% the next; the HR guys said this is because there is a very low turnover, so there is no need to pay better. Companies to what they can, as much as they can.
MattGaiser 5y ago
After a few rounds of this, developers basically join a company with a plan to leave as soon as they become reasonably productive.
alana314 5y ago
Is keeping your salary at pace with inflation a good argument? My raises have typically been 0-3% YoY but inflation in 2021 was 6.8%.

grezql 5y ago

wonderwonder 5y ago

It seems like companies are really having a hard time understanding that people are not going to just take financial hits out of loyalty to a company anymore. Companies still appear to be of the mindset that they can give small cost of living increases and people will stick around for years in hopes of getting promoted. With inflation at 9%, getting a 20% raise after 2 years with a promotion essentially just sets you back at your starting salary with more work and responsibility. Why would anyone stick around for that? Plus there are only so many positions available to be promoted into, statistically the odds are not good for most. Coupled with the fact that companies are very open that they have zero loyalty to any employee below c-suite, its not really surprising people are only keeping jobs for a couple years before being forced to look somewhere else.

boring_twenties 5y ago
> Why would anyone stick around for that? Lots of reasons. First of all, job hunting takes time and effort. If you're rusty at interviewing and need some practice, then even more so. People that have kids or other responsibilities outside of work have even less of both available. On top of that you have to face rejection, which for many people is emotionally difficult. Secondly, even if everything goes well, it's still a substantial risk. The new job might seem great at first, then turn out to be a nightmare a couple of months in. The old job might not be ideal, but you're used to it, and know you can live with it -- it's the devil you know. Same way that couples often stay in unsatisfying relationships for years, because it seems better than risking ending up alone.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  I have kids and need a raise each year to afford to buy them the things they need while still having a hope of retiring one day. "The new job might seem great at first, then turn out to be a nightmare a couple of months in" This is pretty much most of my jobs. The current one is probably the nicest I have had in a long time but I still need a raise as the thought of working until 65 just to be old and then die fills me with existential dread.