3 ms·

Geez someone hit a nerve, eh? I'm a Canadian and I've travelled most of Europe, and most of the US (among other parts of the world). The simple fact that the

by sbarre 5y ago

Geez someone hit a nerve, eh? I'm a Canadian and I've travelled most of Europe, and most of the US (among other parts of the world). The simple fact that the US doesn't have universal healthcare, and refuses to do anything real about it, or other endemic self-inflicted issues like gun violence - problems the rest of the modern world solved long ago! - kinda puts you at the bottom of the list of modern/developed countries in my book. OP used a rather inflammatory term for sure, but he's not wrong when comparing pros/cons of first-world countries to the US. Y'all have real problems that you could solve but _choose_ not to. It's obviously not all bad, there are lots of things to love about the US, but I would never ever choose to live there for the reasons above and more.

AitchEmArsey 5y ago
> eh? > I'm a Canadian Presented without comment.
busterarm 5y ago
I lived in Canada with an ex-girlfriend for two years and her whole family would pay out of pocket for dental care in the US because the alternative was waiting months (or in the worst case, 2 years) for an appointment. Even for things that should be a dental emergency.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  I call BS. Dental care is completely private in Canada and appointments are easy to find if you're willing to pay.
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    If you're paying either way might as well take a trip to the US where the skilled medical professionals inevitably migrate.
brianwawok 5y ago
> The simple fact that the US doesn't have universal healthcare, and refuses to do anything real about it, What is funny, is how many Canadians come to the US for faster or better treatment. No more 3 month wait list to get a basic procedure. It's almost like there are pros and cons to every system, eh?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  They must be exceptionally wealthy to afford said treatment with no insurance coverage. If you're wealthy, it doesn't matter what the system is because you can just go to a different country to get treatment, that's the same for people in the US. I have a roommate who hasn't had health care most of his adult life because the cost is so high and the fact that most low-end jobs don't offer any. But fuck him I guess.
- sbarre 5y ago
  You mean people who can _afford_ to do it, right? Of course you do. Well that's certainly not the majority of people, and I did say _universal_ health care, not "health care for those who can afford it". Look, I get it... In the US, your worth as a person - and your access to essential services - is tied to your wealth. And while that's a horrible and cruel way to be, it's all you know, so you don't see that it is, particularly if you've never been on the wanting end of that deal.
frankus 5y ago
I'm USian by birth, my parents were both born and raised in Germany, and my partner is Canadian. I've spent most of my life in NW (lower-48) USA and far-western Canada. As a median middle-class person, Canada is pretty clearly the winner. Significantly less economic precarity, lots of mostly (cough Canada Post) well-run public services, and a somewhat self-fulfilling prophecy that government can make people's lives better. As a median HN reader, it's a little bit more of a mixed bag: The pay for software development work in the US is probably about double in terms of PPP versus Canada. The fact that the US is a much bigger market means that a lot of apps/consumer goods/services are available in the US months or years before they launch in Canada. For online orders, delivery is faster, prices are cheaper, and the selection is better in the US. Lastly, and this is kind of specific to the Greater Vancouver/Victoria area, but you pretty much have to be part of the 1% to afford a nice house in any moderately interesting city. I think a lot of this has to do with having the mildest weather in Canada and the geographic constraints of the mountains and waterways (along with being fucked up in pretty much all the same ways as the US real-estate market). That said, in Canada the 1% isn't comically out of reach for a moderately prosperous software nerd. My biggest gripe with the US is the overall sense of incuriosity. Say what you will about American Exceptionalism, if you answer every question of "why don't we <do thing> like <country that does it way better than us>?" with "because we're different", rather than asking if we could try to emulate the way that <country> does <thing>, it leads to a lot of unnecessary stagnation. If the US can at some point get over itself, it probably has a lot of opportunity for catch-up growth.
dang 5y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. It's unbelievably repetitive, tedious and nasty. Exactly the opposite of what this site is meant for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- sbarre 5y ago
  Ok, feedback received. I was sharing my personal experience, as a counterpoint to the previous post. It seemed on topic and relevant based on the overall discussion. I don't feel like my reply was nationalistic (I'm Canadian, we're the least patriotic people around!), inflammatory or nasty in any way, but I will skip these kinds of convos in the future.
  - dang 5y ago
    I'm also Canadian. It's very easy to perceive nationalistic provocations when they come from other people in other countries. It's much harder to perceive it in oneself, because one takes one's own assumptions and style of expression for granted. Swipes like the following are nationalistic putdowns, no different from the kind of thing we ask other users not to post here: > kinda puts you at the bottom of the list of modern/developed countries > Y'all have real problems that you could solve but _choose_ not to > It's obviously not all bad

by sbarre 5y ago

AitchEmArsey 5y ago

> eh? > I'm a Canadian Presented without comment.

busterarm 5y ago

I lived in Canada with an ex-girlfriend for two years and her whole family would pay out of pocket for dental care in the US because the alternative was waiting months (or in the worst case, 2 years) for an appointment. Even for things that should be a dental emergency.

bryanlarsen 5y ago
I call BS. Dental care is completely private in Canada and appointments are easy to find if you're willing to pay.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  If you're paying either way might as well take a trip to the US where the skilled medical professionals inevitably migrate.

brianwawok 5y ago

> The simple fact that the US doesn't have universal healthcare, and refuses to do anything real about it, What is funny, is how many Canadians come to the US for faster or better treatment. No more 3 month wait list to get a basic procedure. It's almost like there are pros and cons to every system, eh?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
They must be exceptionally wealthy to afford said treatment with no insurance coverage. If you're wealthy, it doesn't matter what the system is because you can just go to a different country to get treatment, that's the same for people in the US. I have a roommate who hasn't had health care most of his adult life because the cost is so high and the fact that most low-end jobs don't offer any. But fuck him I guess.
sbarre 5y ago
You mean people who can _afford_ to do it, right? Of course you do. Well that's certainly not the majority of people, and I did say _universal_ health care, not "health care for those who can afford it". Look, I get it... In the US, your worth as a person - and your access to essential services - is tied to your wealth. And while that's a horrible and cruel way to be, it's all you know, so you don't see that it is, particularly if you've never been on the wanting end of that deal.

frankus 5y ago

I'm USian by birth, my parents were both born and raised in Germany, and my partner is Canadian. I've spent most of my life in NW (lower-48) USA and far-western Canada. As a median middle-class person, Canada is pretty clearly the winner. Significantly less economic precarity, lots of mostly (cough Canada Post) well-run public services, and a somewhat self-fulfilling prophecy that government can make people's lives better. As a median HN reader, it's a little bit more of a mixed bag: The pay for software development work in the US is probably about double in terms of PPP versus Canada. The fact that the US is a much bigger market means that a lot of apps/consumer goods/services are available in the US months or years before they launch in Canada. For online orders, delivery is faster, prices are cheaper, and the selection is better in the US. Lastly, and this is kind of specific to the Greater Vancouver/Victoria area, but you pretty much have to be part of the 1% to afford a nice house in any moderately interesting city. I think a lot of this has to do with having the mildest weather in Canada and the geographic constraints of the mountains and waterways (along with being fucked up in pretty much all the same ways as the US real-estate market). That said, in Canada the 1% isn't comically out of reach for a moderately prosperous software nerd. My biggest gripe with the US is the overall sense of incuriosity. Say what you will about American Exceptionalism, if you answer every question of "why don't we <do thing> like <country that does it way better than us>?" with "because we're different", rather than asking if we could try to emulate the way that <country> does <thing>, it leads to a lot of unnecessary stagnation. If the US can at some point get over itself, it probably has a lot of opportunity for catch-up growth.

dang 5y ago

Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. It's unbelievably repetitive, tedious and nasty. Exactly the opposite of what this site is meant for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sbarre 5y ago
Ok, feedback received. I was sharing my personal experience, as a counterpoint to the previous post. It seemed on topic and relevant based on the overall discussion. I don't feel like my reply was nationalistic (I'm Canadian, we're the least patriotic people around!), inflammatory or nasty in any way, but I will skip these kinds of convos in the future.
- dang 5y ago
  I'm also Canadian. It's very easy to perceive nationalistic provocations when they come from other people in other countries. It's much harder to perceive it in oneself, because one takes one's own assumptions and style of expression for granted. Swipes like the following are nationalistic putdowns, no different from the kind of thing we ask other users not to post here: > kinda puts you at the bottom of the list of modern/developed countries > Y'all have real problems that you could solve but _choose_ not to > It's obviously not all bad