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Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe. LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. If you’d moved t

Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe. LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. If you’d moved to some of the less desirable locations in Europe, you’d probably find them to be a shithole, too. Your lack of perspective (“how much of a shithole the USA really is”) is something I’d only expect from someone half your age on their first backpacking tour of Europe.

boffinAudio 5y ago
The Ruhrgebiet is a shithole. But then again, so is Florida. As is North Dakota and most of Utah. Arizona is pretty nice, but I probably think that only because of my Australian skin. The USA is a huge shithole, and if you don't understand why anyone would think that, I have a bridge to sell you .. under which live 12 families, kids and all, who couldn't pay their medical bills after Mom/Grandpa died of cancer. It is a very American thing to get so upset when the country is criticized. Haven't run into that in Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, or Serbia. Okay, the Hungarians can match American nationalism at times, but for the most part you guys have a monopoly on incomprehensibly bone-headed nationalism occluding your view of the wonders of the rest of the world...
- deleted 5y ago
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- the_lonely_road 5y ago
  Florida is a shithole? You spend too much time on the internet. Florida man is a literal meme that came about because of laws that all state collected data should be publicly available causing the media to get most of its fun crime stories from the very large population there. You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement? Very large swaths of southern Florida contain some of the most modern and amenity rich sections of the WORLD. Not accessible to the average citizen of course, but then again Luxembourg isn't well known for its accessibility either. We are so much more alike than we are different.
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    >You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement? Yes of course, making it a shithole for those who didn't.
  - jimbob45 5y ago
    I was going to write exactly this. Florida is the proverbial city on a hill for its progressive crime transparency policies. I'm tired of the ignorant fools giving it a bad name because they're going to drag down a very healthy policy with them. I'm convinced that other states and countries try to smear Florida because they're terrified what would happen if they themselves had the bravery to commit to Florida's level of governmental transparency. https://uwf.edu/go/legal-and-consumer-info/florida-sunshine-law/ https://uwf.edu/go/legal-and-consumer-info/florida-sunshine-...
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      How do you consider it “progressive” that Florida makes it easy to publicly shame people in the press for their transgressions? Most of the time it’s just punching downwards.
      - jimbob45 5y ago
        I think my link above would be very helpful for you. It's not just about crime transparency, which is something that virtually every state signaled support for in 2020. It's every governmental activity including university meetings. You know it's working because people get caught trying to circumvent it[0]. The Attorney General hates it[1]. Without it, we wouldn't know about former governor candidate Andrew Gillum being a methhead[2]. I can't confirm this but I'm fairly sure we only know about the expired COVID tests because of this law[3]. I simply encourage you to educate yourself on Florida and to understand that their openness is something to be lauded, not feared or mocked. [0]https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/01/07/2-florida-county-commissioners-from-the-villages-removed-after-perjury-charges/ https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/01/07/2-... [1]https://flaglerlive.com/95717/sunshine-law-snyder/ https://flaglerlive.com/95717/sunshine-law-snyder/ [2]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-gillum-found-at-scene-of-suspected-drug-overdose-in-miami-hotel-room-2020-03-13/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-gillum-found-at-scene-of... [3]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/desantis-confirms-many-1-million-covid-tests-expired-state-stockpile-n1287174 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/desantis-conf...
- Nimitz14 5y ago
  He's not upset. He just wishes for a more mature level of discourse. Your inability to understand that makes you someone not really worth engaging with. edit: Now that I think about it your mentality fits very well with someone from Vienna, you've integrated well.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  I think getting upset comes from the fact that in addition to some very valid criticism, there is a tremendous amount of invalid criticism thrown towards the US. If Germany or Austria or the Netherlands were constantly being insulted on the world-stage then they would likely grow sensitive to criticism as well, even when it is occasionally valid. Another reason could be the mindless, abject hatred you seem to have of the country. If you approached your criticisms rationally they likely would be better recieved. Instead it sounds like you're spouting what you've read on woke twitter and have left no room for compromise. Saying "The USA is a shithole" is akin to saying "Europe is a shithole". It's a blanket statement that it not unilaterally true for either. I lived in Europe myself for several years and there were things I both loved and hated. There were nice areas as well as shitty areas. After spending those years in the EU, I've come to prefer the US. You're entitled to your opinion, you're not entitled to generalize an entire country and it's population and then insult someone when they object to those generalizations.
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    > If Germany or Austria or the Netherlands were constantly being insulted on the world-stage This would be a fair argument if you, as an American, weren't ignoring the fact that the USA is the worlds #1 cause of terror, war and torment - in countless other sovereign nations, whose infrastructure was torn apart so that Americans could feel good about themselves and their country. Austrians, and Germans aren't dropping bombs on innocent people every twenty minutes. Your perception that America is unjustly criticized belies the fact that just maybe, you need to travel a bit more to see that a lot of the world is seriously fed up with America's bullshit. The point of travelling is to try to understand that a bit better, and I hope you do that. In the same way that I generalize about America being a shit-hole - Americans generalize, and then drop bombs.
    - throwaway6734 5y ago
      >the fact that the USA is the worlds #1 cause of terror, war and torment - in countless other sovereign nations, Pax Americana has been the most productive time in modern history. Europe's track record is objectively worse
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  I've lived in the US my whole life, I've been to LA once for a wedding, and I really don't see a single similarity between what's going on in LA and what's going on where I live (Northwest Arkansas). My air is clean, my commutes are traffic free, the people here generally suck, and I have access to world class... everything, if I want it (well, maybe not transportation, but my car is nice, German even!, and I can get everywhere in it pretty easily). Because I'm wealthy, I can afford all of the things you get for free in Germany without it negatively affecting my way of life, which probably helps substantially, but that's part of America too. I want to move to Europe from the US, everything you described is amazing, but maybe it's a shithole to you because you've only been to a few places in the US. Hawaii is in the US. Puerto Rico, Alaska, The Everglades, Sequoia National Park, Glacier National Park, Yellowstone National Park; it's hard to go to those places and walk away thinking they're "shitholes". The USA is huge. Some of it is a shithole, and where you lived for 15 years is probably closer to shithole than not, but "The USA is a huge shithole" is probably not as true as you're making it out to be here.
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    Oh, there are definitely beautiful places in America - just as there are beautiful places in Australia. But the nationalist culture, the pride and arrogance, the ignorance of the cost to the rest of the world of American moral authority - this is prevalent no matter where you go in the USA. And then, there's the social fabric. Go outside and find your nearest bum, living on the street. Get to know them and how they go there. That is a very American circumstance.
    - TameAntelope 5y ago
      In my darker moments I tend to agree with you here, but what I then realize is that it's monumentally difficult to get a land of 330m people to agree, and when you've got a group of people that large, the worst groups will just be bigger and meaner. My worry for you is that this reaction is a visceral one, fundamentally rooted in a dislike for America's diversity. It's a messy process, getting everyone to work together, and we're fucking it up pretty monumentally, but to call the effort a "shithole" seems like you'd prefer the US be less diverse? Fewer disagreements would arise, but at what cost? Germany and Austria have... less than stellar records when it comes to human rights, and aren't exactly known for their exploding levels of diversity on a national level, so perhaps the "unity" you're experiencing came at a cost? Perhaps that very cost was something that disgusted you in the US? I wonder how a Muslim would describe living in Vienna vs. living in, say, Chicago or DC.
- boc 5y ago
  In your first post you wrote: "I've gained Immense amounts of respect for humanity" yet you turn around and write this. You were a tourist here. You lived in Los Angeles. Yet you somehow feel emboldened to call a nation of 330M+ people "A huge shithole"? And you haven't met any nationalistic Serbians? Sorry if I don't take you seriously.
  - throwaway6734 5y ago
    >I've completely lost the brain-dead nationalist mentality that had infected me in my earlier life OP seems to deal in intense absolutes
- disease 5y ago
  > It is a very American thing to get so upset when the country is criticized. I think this is thankfully becoming at least slightly less common, at least among educated Americans. For me at least the combination of meeting more people outside my bubble, travelling and learning more about the history of the United States has led me to a similar conclusion that you have reached. A few weeks ago I returned to my rural Minnesota hometown to see people that had come from families that had lived there multiple generations wearing confederate flag clothing. I wonder if they had any concept of which side their forefathers would have been fighting with back then.
- steelstraw 5y ago
  That's just, like, your opinion, man. Florida had the highest net migration in the US both domestically and internationally. Here's the census data for 2021: The largest net domestic migration gains were in Florida (220,890), Texas (170,307) and Arizona (93,026). Florida (38,590), Texas (27,185) and New York (18,307) had the largest population gains from net international migration. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2021-population-estimates.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2021-pop...
- elliotec 5y ago
  If "most of Utah" is on your shithole list, then I question your honesty on having visited.
- dang 5y ago
  I'm sorry to pile on, but flamewar comments like this and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30074086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30074086 are completely unacceptable on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are, and regardless of which country or countries you have a problem with. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
sbarre 5y ago
Geez someone hit a nerve, eh? I'm a Canadian and I've travelled most of Europe, and most of the US (among other parts of the world). The simple fact that the US doesn't have universal healthcare, and refuses to do anything real about it, or other endemic self-inflicted issues like gun violence - problems the rest of the modern world solved long ago! - kinda puts you at the bottom of the list of modern/developed countries in my book. OP used a rather inflammatory term for sure, but he's not wrong when comparing pros/cons of first-world countries to the US. Y'all have real problems that you could solve but _choose_ not to. It's obviously not all bad, there are lots of things to love about the US, but I would never ever choose to live there for the reasons above and more.
- AitchEmArsey 5y ago
  > eh? > I'm a Canadian Presented without comment.
- busterarm 5y ago
  I lived in Canada with an ex-girlfriend for two years and her whole family would pay out of pocket for dental care in the US because the alternative was waiting months (or in the worst case, 2 years) for an appointment. Even for things that should be a dental emergency.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    I call BS. Dental care is completely private in Canada and appointments are easy to find if you're willing to pay.
    - MathCodeLove 5y ago
      If you're paying either way might as well take a trip to the US where the skilled medical professionals inevitably migrate.
- brianwawok 5y ago
  > The simple fact that the US doesn't have universal healthcare, and refuses to do anything real about it, What is funny, is how many Canadians come to the US for faster or better treatment. No more 3 month wait list to get a basic procedure. It's almost like there are pros and cons to every system, eh?
oaiey 5y ago
I come from a normal German city, nothing fancy, and have been overall roughly a year in the US. Boston, Princeton, Philadelphia, NY state. I am wealthy, privileged and was guided safely I can absolutely confirm the sentiment of the OP, not coming from worst to best but coming from mid range to mid range. Europe has the better package. The amount of homeless, the amount of wasted landscape, the amount of beton, the car dependency, the disgusting public transport, the hotels, the water, ... I can rant for an hour. I love Americans, i deeply respect a lot what they did and do but life quality measured in every day quality ... Do not get me started on that.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  Es ist sehr interessant, nicht wahr, wie banal das Verständnis der meisten Amerikaner für ihre Notlage ist? Sie werden nicht für Demut gezüchtet, während die meisten Europäer heutzutage...
  - gutitout 5y ago
    Was sollen die den machen? Wirklich neugierig was der Vorschlag ist.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      Wer? Die Europäer, oder die Amis? Ach. Ich editiere das mal: Beide sind so dumm, dass die Schweine sie beissen! Grunz
- syki 5y ago
  ...but life quality measured in every day quality ... Do not get me started on that. It's so difficult to get Americans to grasp that this could be true. Most simply won't contemplate that it could be true. It does not occur to us that freedom to get healthcare without fear of going bankrupt is a freedom worth having. The simple act of walking from one town to another is alien to Americans. One thing that struck me when living in Germany was the lack of development around the lakes. In the U.S. lakes mostly are surrounded by houses with little thought to letting people walk there and enjoy the lake. I much prefer the European way of life. Europeans know how to live better than Americans. But we Americans can burn Korans, walk around with guns, and do Nazi salutes so we must be more free than Europeans....
_moof 5y ago
This is getting heated so let's all take about 20% off there, buds, eh? That being said I've lived all over the US and traveled all over the world, and yes, LA is particularly bad, but in general I agree with OP.
- deleted 5y ago
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wbsss4412 5y ago
> LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. LA isn’t even the worst in that regard (I’d take LA over DFW) I don’t know where you are from, but LA is actually representative of large swaths of the US, and highlights some of the best things about America (namely multiculturalism and diversity)
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  True. I did love the multicultural aspect of Los Angeles, but it got blown to pieces during 9/11, and once the hatred and the flags came out, it was definitely time to leave .. But for many years I considered LA to be a very fine example of people living together, relatively peaceful. Well, after the RK riots, that is ..
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    Post 9/11 America was indeed very toxic, but I have to ask how much you have been back since? (Not to say our political culture isn’t still toxic)
    - boffinAudio 5y ago
      Yes, multiple times and my viewpoint remains.
      - wbsss4412 5y ago
        That’s fair, I never had the fortune to live in pre 9/11 America as an adult, so I lack that perspective. I share a lot of your perspectives too, but I’m pretty content with my little corner up in the PNW.
  - bogomipz 5y ago
    If you moved out of LA 20 years ago and lived there for 15 years you would not have lived in LA at the time of Rodney King incident and the LA Riots which was in 1992. As such you have no basis or credibility to make commentary and comparisons between LA before versus after the Riots. As someone who was there before, during and after I can say you have no idea what you are talking about. There was no momentous shift or even appreciable difference in LA in the aftermath of the riots. Further the "multicultural aspect of Los Angeles" did most certainly not get "blown to pieces." The weeks after 9/11 the palpable feeling was one of introspection, unity and kindness. So much so that the joke was it was starting to make people uncomfortable.
scsilver 5y ago
I mean there aren't cities like Vienna in the US.
deleted 5y ago
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BatteryMountain 5y ago
It's not lack of perspective. It's even worse when looking at America from Africa. I feel like we are peers in a great race to win the-best-shithole-on-earth contest. But then again, both have beautiful spaces, so I guess the real measure is between large cities, of which most is horrible for human needs. This is where Europe excels (and Japan & SK and few others) - they are human-centric and not work/car -centric. It feels like you are "living" in those countries, but in places like America you are just working... for what? Just money. Then what? Make some war etc? Skip. If I can I would move to Europe tomorrow.
muzani 5y ago
What are some good American cities? From the perspective of an Asian, I'd think LA was on par with Vienna, if not better (Hollywood, Disney Land, etc)

boffinAudio 5y ago

The Ruhrgebiet is a shithole. But then again, so is Florida. As is North Dakota and most of Utah. Arizona is pretty nice, but I probably think that only because of my Australian skin. The USA is a huge shithole, and if you don't understand why anyone would think that, I have a bridge to sell you .. under which live 12 families, kids and all, who couldn't pay their medical bills after Mom/Grandpa died of cancer. It is a very American thing to get so upset when the country is criticized. Haven't run into that in Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, or Serbia. Okay, the Hungarians can match American nationalism at times, but for the most part you guys have a monopoly on incomprehensibly bone-headed nationalism occluding your view of the wonders of the rest of the world...

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the_lonely_road 5y ago
Florida is a shithole? You spend too much time on the internet. Florida man is a literal meme that came about because of laws that all state collected data should be publicly available causing the media to get most of its fun crime stories from the very large population there. You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement? Very large swaths of southern Florida contain some of the most modern and amenity rich sections of the WORLD. Not accessible to the average citizen of course, but then again Luxembourg isn't well known for its accessibility either. We are so much more alike than we are different.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  >You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement? Yes of course, making it a shithole for those who didn't.
- jimbob45 5y ago
  I was going to write exactly this. Florida is the proverbial city on a hill for its progressive crime transparency policies. I'm tired of the ignorant fools giving it a bad name because they're going to drag down a very healthy policy with them. I'm convinced that other states and countries try to smear Florida because they're terrified what would happen if they themselves had the bravery to commit to Florida's level of governmental transparency. https://uwf.edu/go/legal-and-consumer-info/florida-sunshine-law/ https://uwf.edu/go/legal-and-consumer-info/florida-sunshine-...
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    How do you consider it “progressive” that Florida makes it easy to publicly shame people in the press for their transgressions? Most of the time it’s just punching downwards.
    - jimbob45 5y ago
      I think my link above would be very helpful for you. It's not just about crime transparency, which is something that virtually every state signaled support for in 2020. It's every governmental activity including university meetings. You know it's working because people get caught trying to circumvent it[0]. The Attorney General hates it[1]. Without it, we wouldn't know about former governor candidate Andrew Gillum being a methhead[2]. I can't confirm this but I'm fairly sure we only know about the expired COVID tests because of this law[3]. I simply encourage you to educate yourself on Florida and to understand that their openness is something to be lauded, not feared or mocked. [0]https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/01/07/2-florida-county-commissioners-from-the-villages-removed-after-perjury-charges/ https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/01/07/2-... [1]https://flaglerlive.com/95717/sunshine-law-snyder/ https://flaglerlive.com/95717/sunshine-law-snyder/ [2]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-gillum-found-at-scene-of-suspected-drug-overdose-in-miami-hotel-room-2020-03-13/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-gillum-found-at-scene-of... [3]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/desantis-confirms-many-1-million-covid-tests-expired-state-stockpile-n1287174 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/desantis-conf...
Nimitz14 5y ago
He's not upset. He just wishes for a more mature level of discourse. Your inability to understand that makes you someone not really worth engaging with. edit: Now that I think about it your mentality fits very well with someone from Vienna, you've integrated well.
MathCodeLove 5y ago
I think getting upset comes from the fact that in addition to some very valid criticism, there is a tremendous amount of invalid criticism thrown towards the US. If Germany or Austria or the Netherlands were constantly being insulted on the world-stage then they would likely grow sensitive to criticism as well, even when it is occasionally valid. Another reason could be the mindless, abject hatred you seem to have of the country. If you approached your criticisms rationally they likely would be better recieved. Instead it sounds like you're spouting what you've read on woke twitter and have left no room for compromise. Saying "The USA is a shithole" is akin to saying "Europe is a shithole". It's a blanket statement that it not unilaterally true for either. I lived in Europe myself for several years and there were things I both loved and hated. There were nice areas as well as shitty areas. After spending those years in the EU, I've come to prefer the US. You're entitled to your opinion, you're not entitled to generalize an entire country and it's population and then insult someone when they object to those generalizations.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  > If Germany or Austria or the Netherlands were constantly being insulted on the world-stage This would be a fair argument if you, as an American, weren't ignoring the fact that the USA is the worlds #1 cause of terror, war and torment - in countless other sovereign nations, whose infrastructure was torn apart so that Americans could feel good about themselves and their country. Austrians, and Germans aren't dropping bombs on innocent people every twenty minutes. Your perception that America is unjustly criticized belies the fact that just maybe, you need to travel a bit more to see that a lot of the world is seriously fed up with America's bullshit. The point of travelling is to try to understand that a bit better, and I hope you do that. In the same way that I generalize about America being a shit-hole - Americans generalize, and then drop bombs.
  - throwaway6734 5y ago
    >the fact that the USA is the worlds #1 cause of terror, war and torment - in countless other sovereign nations, Pax Americana has been the most productive time in modern history. Europe's track record is objectively worse
TameAntelope 5y ago
I've lived in the US my whole life, I've been to LA once for a wedding, and I really don't see a single similarity between what's going on in LA and what's going on where I live (Northwest Arkansas). My air is clean, my commutes are traffic free, the people here generally suck, and I have access to world class... everything, if I want it (well, maybe not transportation, but my car is nice, German even!, and I can get everywhere in it pretty easily). Because I'm wealthy, I can afford all of the things you get for free in Germany without it negatively affecting my way of life, which probably helps substantially, but that's part of America too. I want to move to Europe from the US, everything you described is amazing, but maybe it's a shithole to you because you've only been to a few places in the US. Hawaii is in the US. Puerto Rico, Alaska, The Everglades, Sequoia National Park, Glacier National Park, Yellowstone National Park; it's hard to go to those places and walk away thinking they're "shitholes". The USA is huge. Some of it is a shithole, and where you lived for 15 years is probably closer to shithole than not, but "The USA is a huge shithole" is probably not as true as you're making it out to be here.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  Oh, there are definitely beautiful places in America - just as there are beautiful places in Australia. But the nationalist culture, the pride and arrogance, the ignorance of the cost to the rest of the world of American moral authority - this is prevalent no matter where you go in the USA. And then, there's the social fabric. Go outside and find your nearest bum, living on the street. Get to know them and how they go there. That is a very American circumstance.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    In my darker moments I tend to agree with you here, but what I then realize is that it's monumentally difficult to get a land of 330m people to agree, and when you've got a group of people that large, the worst groups will just be bigger and meaner. My worry for you is that this reaction is a visceral one, fundamentally rooted in a dislike for America's diversity. It's a messy process, getting everyone to work together, and we're fucking it up pretty monumentally, but to call the effort a "shithole" seems like you'd prefer the US be less diverse? Fewer disagreements would arise, but at what cost? Germany and Austria have... less than stellar records when it comes to human rights, and aren't exactly known for their exploding levels of diversity on a national level, so perhaps the "unity" you're experiencing came at a cost? Perhaps that very cost was something that disgusted you in the US? I wonder how a Muslim would describe living in Vienna vs. living in, say, Chicago or DC.
boc 5y ago
In your first post you wrote: "I've gained Immense amounts of respect for humanity" yet you turn around and write this. You were a tourist here. You lived in Los Angeles. Yet you somehow feel emboldened to call a nation of 330M+ people "A huge shithole"? And you haven't met any nationalistic Serbians? Sorry if I don't take you seriously.
- throwaway6734 5y ago
  >I've completely lost the brain-dead nationalist mentality that had infected me in my earlier life OP seems to deal in intense absolutes
disease 5y ago
> It is a very American thing to get so upset when the country is criticized. I think this is thankfully becoming at least slightly less common, at least among educated Americans. For me at least the combination of meeting more people outside my bubble, travelling and learning more about the history of the United States has led me to a similar conclusion that you have reached. A few weeks ago I returned to my rural Minnesota hometown to see people that had come from families that had lived there multiple generations wearing confederate flag clothing. I wonder if they had any concept of which side their forefathers would have been fighting with back then.
steelstraw 5y ago
That's just, like, your opinion, man. Florida had the highest net migration in the US both domestically and internationally. Here's the census data for 2021: The largest net domestic migration gains were in Florida (220,890), Texas (170,307) and Arizona (93,026). Florida (38,590), Texas (27,185) and New York (18,307) had the largest population gains from net international migration. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2021-population-estimates.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2021-pop...
elliotec 5y ago
If "most of Utah" is on your shithole list, then I question your honesty on having visited.
dang 5y ago
I'm sorry to pile on, but flamewar comments like this and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30074086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30074086 are completely unacceptable on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are, and regardless of which country or countries you have a problem with. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sbarre 5y ago

Geez someone hit a nerve, eh? I'm a Canadian and I've travelled most of Europe, and most of the US (among other parts of the world). The simple fact that the US doesn't have universal healthcare, and refuses to do anything real about it, or other endemic self-inflicted issues like gun violence - problems the rest of the modern world solved long ago! - kinda puts you at the bottom of the list of modern/developed countries in my book. OP used a rather inflammatory term for sure, but he's not wrong when comparing pros/cons of first-world countries to the US. Y'all have real problems that you could solve but _choose_ not to. It's obviously not all bad, there are lots of things to love about the US, but I would never ever choose to live there for the reasons above and more.

AitchEmArsey 5y ago
> eh? > I'm a Canadian Presented without comment.
busterarm 5y ago
I lived in Canada with an ex-girlfriend for two years and her whole family would pay out of pocket for dental care in the US because the alternative was waiting months (or in the worst case, 2 years) for an appointment. Even for things that should be a dental emergency.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  I call BS. Dental care is completely private in Canada and appointments are easy to find if you're willing to pay.
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    If you're paying either way might as well take a trip to the US where the skilled medical professionals inevitably migrate.
brianwawok 5y ago
> The simple fact that the US doesn't have universal healthcare, and refuses to do anything real about it, What is funny, is how many Canadians come to the US for faster or better treatment. No more 3 month wait list to get a basic procedure. It's almost like there are pros and cons to every system, eh?

oaiey 5y ago

I come from a normal German city, nothing fancy, and have been overall roughly a year in the US. Boston, Princeton, Philadelphia, NY state. I am wealthy, privileged and was guided safely I can absolutely confirm the sentiment of the OP, not coming from worst to best but coming from mid range to mid range. Europe has the better package. The amount of homeless, the amount of wasted landscape, the amount of beton, the car dependency, the disgusting public transport, the hotels, the water, ... I can rant for an hour. I love Americans, i deeply respect a lot what they did and do but life quality measured in every day quality ... Do not get me started on that.

boffinAudio 5y ago
Es ist sehr interessant, nicht wahr, wie banal das Verständnis der meisten Amerikaner für ihre Notlage ist? Sie werden nicht für Demut gezüchtet, während die meisten Europäer heutzutage...
- gutitout 5y ago
  Was sollen die den machen? Wirklich neugierig was der Vorschlag ist.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Wer? Die Europäer, oder die Amis? Ach. Ich editiere das mal: Beide sind so dumm, dass die Schweine sie beissen! Grunz
syki 5y ago
...but life quality measured in every day quality ... Do not get me started on that. It's so difficult to get Americans to grasp that this could be true. Most simply won't contemplate that it could be true. It does not occur to us that freedom to get healthcare without fear of going bankrupt is a freedom worth having. The simple act of walking from one town to another is alien to Americans. One thing that struck me when living in Germany was the lack of development around the lakes. In the U.S. lakes mostly are surrounded by houses with little thought to letting people walk there and enjoy the lake. I much prefer the European way of life. Europeans know how to live better than Americans. But we Americans can burn Korans, walk around with guns, and do Nazi salutes so we must be more free than Europeans....

_moof 5y ago

This is getting heated so let's all take about 20% off there, buds, eh? That being said I've lived all over the US and traveled all over the world, and yes, LA is particularly bad, but in general I agree with OP.

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wbsss4412 5y ago

> LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. LA isn’t even the worst in that regard (I’d take LA over DFW) I don’t know where you are from, but LA is actually representative of large swaths of the US, and highlights some of the best things about America (namely multiculturalism and diversity)

boffinAudio 5y ago
True. I did love the multicultural aspect of Los Angeles, but it got blown to pieces during 9/11, and once the hatred and the flags came out, it was definitely time to leave .. But for many years I considered LA to be a very fine example of people living together, relatively peaceful. Well, after the RK riots, that is ..
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  Post 9/11 America was indeed very toxic, but I have to ask how much you have been back since? (Not to say our political culture isn’t still toxic)
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    Yes, multiple times and my viewpoint remains.
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      That’s fair, I never had the fortune to live in pre 9/11 America as an adult, so I lack that perspective. I share a lot of your perspectives too, but I’m pretty content with my little corner up in the PNW.
- bogomipz 5y ago
  If you moved out of LA 20 years ago and lived there for 15 years you would not have lived in LA at the time of Rodney King incident and the LA Riots which was in 1992. As such you have no basis or credibility to make commentary and comparisons between LA before versus after the Riots. As someone who was there before, during and after I can say you have no idea what you are talking about. There was no momentous shift or even appreciable difference in LA in the aftermath of the riots. Further the "multicultural aspect of Los Angeles" did most certainly not get "blown to pieces." The weeks after 9/11 the palpable feeling was one of introspection, unity and kindness. So much so that the joke was it was starting to make people uncomfortable.

scsilver 5y ago

I mean there aren't cities like Vienna in the US.

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BatteryMountain 5y ago

It's not lack of perspective. It's even worse when looking at America from Africa. I feel like we are peers in a great race to win the-best-shithole-on-earth contest. But then again, both have beautiful spaces, so I guess the real measure is between large cities, of which most is horrible for human needs. This is where Europe excels (and Japan & SK and few others) - they are human-centric and not work/car -centric. It feels like you are "living" in those countries, but in places like America you are just working... for what? Just money. Then what? Make some war etc? Skip. If I can I would move to Europe tomorrow.

muzani 5y ago

What are some good American cities? From the perspective of an Asian, I'd think LA was on par with Vienna, if not better (Hollywood, Disney Land, etc)