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One thing expats definitely have to do is readjust their expectations about cost of living and relative expenses. While the payroll for your average European t

One thing expats definitely have to do is readjust their expectations about cost of living and relative expenses. While the payroll for your average European tech guy is nowhere near the stellar heights of the SV bro's, the buying power in Europe is at a level higher than you might expect. Whereas, for a single night out in SoCal I'd spend $100 - $150, dinner movie and drinks - here in Vienna I'd get through just as much of an evening blast for less than 1/3rd of that figure. You won't be buying million-dollar mansions on a European programmers salary, but then maybe you'll find less materialist goals in the European context .. just being able to take a train-ride anywhere is a vast improvement.

jypepin 5y ago
This is completely true. And also, if money feels like it could be an issue, and you are coming from the US with a US network, it's still pretty easy to find contracting work with your US-based network at US rates. That's what we did once we quit our jobs and I was pretty much working 2 days/week.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  Oh, that's another thing: while salaries in Europe might be sub-par by American standards, subcontractor values are exceptionally comparable to American standards. That is to say, if you can find subcontractor-style/freelance work in Europe, you can expect to make revenues on par with American standards. Its just the employment laws that make half your paycheck disappear every month. But, don't worry, when you need healthcare you won't be going anywhere near a bankruptcy procedure. I broke my arm a few years back and needed reconstructive surgery that would have cost me multiple $100,000+'s in the USA - whereas here in Austria, even unemployed, I was covered and did not have to pay a dime.
  - IamInEurope 5y ago
    You usually lose your health insurance in Austria after about 30 weeks of unemployment... so not sure what you are talking about. https://www.ams.at/arbeitsuchende/arbeitslos-was-tun/geld-vom-ams/krankenversicherung#weristkrankenversichert https://www.ams.at/arbeitsuchende/arbeitslos-was-tun/geld-vo...
    - boffinAudio 5y ago
      Only if you haven't worked anywhere for 6 months, whereas I have worked almost every month I've lived in Europe, and only had my accident between jobs. For a lot of Americans, this would have been a dire, life-changing event. Europeans don't understand just how dangerous that can be in the USA.
shankr 5y ago
> You won't be buying million-dollar mansions on a European programmers salary You won't be buying any decent apartment/house unless you move outside of city, buy a car and let go of all the benefits that comes with living in a European city.
- boffinAudio 5y ago
  Not true, I bought a house in Vienna for less than a quarter of what I would have paid for an apartment in Los Angeles. Okay, its not in Vienna (the state), but its close enough to not make any difference to my commute across town to work.
  - shankr 5y ago
    Your LA baseline is definitely much different than an average European. It's like how an American/Australian colleague moved to Berlin from Sydney, bought an apartment right in the middle of the city and paid it all in cash.
- Oddskar 5y ago
  Not true at all. I know plenty of people that live in nice houses and apartments in major European cities.
  - shankr 5y ago
    And I know lot of people still living with their parents - especially in Southern European countries.
    - Oddskar 5y ago
      Right. Which speaks to that "European city" is perhaps a bit of an overly broad concept for it to be useful.
      - shankr 5y ago
        And the thing is the people from these "European city" aren't low wage burger flipping workers. They are educated Phds, devs who struggle to live on their own or own a house.
anonymouse008 5y ago
[comment intended for boffinAudio] I've been hacking on something I have no business really doing (skill level: can barely read header files). If you're open to new things, please, please reach out. My fiancé and her sister absolutely love a little audio product I made, and even if I sell two more or a million more, break even or go broke, giving in this way makes life worth living. Cheers mate

jypepin 5y ago

This is completely true. And also, if money feels like it could be an issue, and you are coming from the US with a US network, it's still pretty easy to find contracting work with your US-based network at US rates. That's what we did once we quit our jobs and I was pretty much working 2 days/week.

boffinAudio 5y ago
Oh, that's another thing: while salaries in Europe might be sub-par by American standards, subcontractor values are exceptionally comparable to American standards. That is to say, if you can find subcontractor-style/freelance work in Europe, you can expect to make revenues on par with American standards. Its just the employment laws that make half your paycheck disappear every month. But, don't worry, when you need healthcare you won't be going anywhere near a bankruptcy procedure. I broke my arm a few years back and needed reconstructive surgery that would have cost me multiple $100,000+'s in the USA - whereas here in Austria, even unemployed, I was covered and did not have to pay a dime.
- IamInEurope 5y ago
  You usually lose your health insurance in Austria after about 30 weeks of unemployment... so not sure what you are talking about. https://www.ams.at/arbeitsuchende/arbeitslos-was-tun/geld-vom-ams/krankenversicherung#weristkrankenversichert https://www.ams.at/arbeitsuchende/arbeitslos-was-tun/geld-vo...
  - boffinAudio 5y ago
    Only if you haven't worked anywhere for 6 months, whereas I have worked almost every month I've lived in Europe, and only had my accident between jobs. For a lot of Americans, this would have been a dire, life-changing event. Europeans don't understand just how dangerous that can be in the USA.

shankr 5y ago

> You won't be buying million-dollar mansions on a European programmers salary You won't be buying any decent apartment/house unless you move outside of city, buy a car and let go of all the benefits that comes with living in a European city.

boffinAudio 5y ago
Not true, I bought a house in Vienna for less than a quarter of what I would have paid for an apartment in Los Angeles. Okay, its not in Vienna (the state), but its close enough to not make any difference to my commute across town to work.
- shankr 5y ago
  Your LA baseline is definitely much different than an average European. It's like how an American/Australian colleague moved to Berlin from Sydney, bought an apartment right in the middle of the city and paid it all in cash.
Oddskar 5y ago
Not true at all. I know plenty of people that live in nice houses and apartments in major European cities.
- shankr 5y ago
  And I know lot of people still living with their parents - especially in Southern European countries.
  - Oddskar 5y ago
    Right. Which speaks to that "European city" is perhaps a bit of an overly broad concept for it to be useful.
    - shankr 5y ago
      And the thing is the people from these "European city" aren't low wage burger flipping workers. They are educated Phds, devs who struggle to live on their own or own a house.

anonymouse008 5y ago

[comment intended for boffinAudio] I've been hacking on something I have no business really doing (skill level: can barely read header files). If you're open to new things, please, please reach out. My fiancé and her sister absolutely love a little audio product I made, and even if I sell two more or a million more, break even or go broke, giving in this way makes life worth living. Cheers mate