4 ms·

"The malware would collect user data and send it to a remote address." unpopular question, but how is this any different than mistakenly forgetting to disclose

"The malware would collect user data and send it to a remote address." unpopular question, but how is this any different than mistakenly forgetting to disclose 'telemetry' in your code? or backdoors that routinely get disclosed in US embedded hardware products like firewalls and routers? or Discord scanning your entire hard disk? Ill admit the product seems pretty poorly designed from the get-go, but the tactics at work here are pretty standard when you consider things like Alexa and Ring get a pass for similar chicanery.

marginalia_nu 5y ago
It isn't, and those things are just as bad. As a concrete example of just how far the creeping acceptance of surveillance has come. Remember BonziBuddy[1], and the absolute shit storm over that and the lawsuits and all that? Well what they did nearly indistinguishable from what Alexa does, and Cortana, and Siri, and Google Assistant. But it's just the way things are now. And no, it's not fine because everyone is doing it. It's still just as bad as it was then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L958sMz1kWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L958sMz1kWs
IggleSniggle 5y ago
Alexa and Ring don't get a pass though, do they? For these very reasons. I know this is the HN crowd and not the general population, but I think most of HN would agree that undisclosed telemetry is super bad / malicious, and that disclosed / configurable telemetry is much better...but still often must be disabled because the Well is Poisoned by inappropriately utilized telemetry.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
It’s marked as a “Trojan/backdoor”, meaning remote access tool, and it tries to spread itself by inserting files to any USB stick inserted into the computer. Giving someone full remote control over a computer and trying to spread that control as a computer virus is nothing like anonymous analytics collection.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
It's not really any different but these are "legitimate" companies with "legitimate" interests in people's data so nobody says anything. Governments do the same things that many hackers have gone to jail for at much larger scales and they award themselves medals for it. They literally stockpile exploits and don't help patch vulnerabilities, allowing their own citizens to remain insecure. The FBI once let a child abuse case fall apart because the judge ordered them to disclose the vulnerability and they refused.

marginalia_nu 5y ago

It isn't, and those things are just as bad. As a concrete example of just how far the creeping acceptance of surveillance has come. Remember BonziBuddy[1], and the absolute shit storm over that and the lawsuits and all that? Well what they did nearly indistinguishable from what Alexa does, and Cortana, and Siri, and Google Assistant. But it's just the way things are now. And no, it's not fine because everyone is doing it. It's still just as bad as it was then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L958sMz1kWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L958sMz1kWs

IggleSniggle 5y ago

Alexa and Ring don't get a pass though, do they? For these very reasons. I know this is the HN crowd and not the general population, but I think most of HN would agree that undisclosed telemetry is super bad / malicious, and that disclosed / configurable telemetry is much better...but still often must be disabled because the Well is Poisoned by inappropriately utilized telemetry.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

It’s marked as a “Trojan/backdoor”, meaning remote access tool, and it tries to spread itself by inserting files to any USB stick inserted into the computer. Giving someone full remote control over a computer and trying to spread that control as a computer virus is nothing like anonymous analytics collection.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

It's not really any different but these are "legitimate" companies with "legitimate" interests in people's data so nobody says anything. Governments do the same things that many hackers have gone to jail for at much larger scales and they award themselves medals for it. They literally stockpile exploits and don't help patch vulnerabilities, allowing their own citizens to remain insecure. The FBI once let a child abuse case fall apart because the judge ordered them to disclose the vulnerability and they refused.