5 ms·

I am more than a little concerned that since the miniaturization and commoditization of spy hardware (miniature microphones, cameras, and wireless communication

by titzer 5y ago

I am more than a little concerned that since the miniaturization and commoditization of spy hardware (miniature microphones, cameras, and wireless communication), that run-of-the-mill consumer electronics are being bugged by default. Given the cost is pennies or just a couple dollars, from an espionage perspective, it'd be worth it to spend a few hundred million or even billion putting bugs into literally everything and letting the market put them into the homes of all your political targets in other countries. Then the problem is just sifting the data, which is easy with the massive amount of computational power that every nation state has these days. That's a great dystopia.

echelon 5y ago
We would find those in tear downs. This caused quite the stir about a month ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29555093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29555093 TikTok, Facebook (for the FBI/CIA), and other platforms are probably lower hanging fruit. People just accept the surveillance, and there's not much reverse engineering one can do to determine what's being done with your data.
bruce343434 5y ago
What would the chips connect to in order to phone home? My protected home wifi? A random telecom carrier for which it will have to have, by chance, a valid prepaid sim card?
- mellavora 5y ago
  Hey, Alexa, please tell me what random devices in my house are connecting to the internets? <waits for answer> Hey, Roomba, did you download the latest firmware yet? Great! Now go clean the dining room, I have a top-secret meeting in there in 10 minutes. Hey, Alexa, set the dining room lights to "top-secret meeting" mode.
  - bruce343434 5y ago
    quite the conspiracy. But I do suppose amazon sidewalk could be tapped into?
carapace 5y ago
This has already happened: smartphones and wifi. People financed it themselves by buying the things. (Wifi can see you: "The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29901587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29901587 ) FWIW, I think whether we build a dystopia or utopia depends on whether or not we can make our rulers live under the same panopticon as the rest of us.
- titzer 5y ago
  I don't disagree with the smartphones and WiFi, though the big 2 are highly motivated to at least secure the kernel and their own spyware. I am more thinking of these things targeting sensitive military installations or personnel. > whether or not we can make our rulers live under the same panopticon as the rest of us. Uh, nope. It's been "rules for thee and not for me" since the dawn of time.
  - carapace 5y ago
    > I am more thinking of these things targeting sensitive military installations or personnel. Ah, yes, it sure would be nice to think that they're a bit more careful, but then I think of things like the OPM leak and I go cross-eyed. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management... - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about but I figured I'd add a link for anyone who didn't.) > It's been "rules for thee and not for me" since the dawn of time. Aye, but I think that's just what the panopticon could overturn, if we set it up that way. I'm not particularly hopeful, but maybe there's a possible future where we overcome our worser natures and use technology wisely. Star Trek vs. N. Korea. FWIW I call this idea the "Tyranny of Mrs. Grundy": if everyone is on the lens-end of the cameras, including police and politicians, then no one escapes censure by Mrs. Grundy. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs_Grundy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs_Grundy ) We're forced to create a "humane tyranny". "Humane tyranny" sounds like an oxymoron from today's POV, but I think the challenge is to "de-oxymoron-icize" it. Due to the advancing tech, I don't think it's optional , the panopticon will happen (it arguably already has), so the challenge is to make it more-or-less livable.

by titzer 5y ago

echelon 5y ago

We would find those in tear downs. This caused quite the stir about a month ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29555093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29555093 TikTok, Facebook (for the FBI/CIA), and other platforms are probably lower hanging fruit. People just accept the surveillance, and there's not much reverse engineering one can do to determine what's being done with your data.

bruce343434 5y ago

What would the chips connect to in order to phone home? My protected home wifi? A random telecom carrier for which it will have to have, by chance, a valid prepaid sim card?

mellavora 5y ago
Hey, Alexa, please tell me what random devices in my house are connecting to the internets? <waits for answer> Hey, Roomba, did you download the latest firmware yet? Great! Now go clean the dining room, I have a top-secret meeting in there in 10 minutes. Hey, Alexa, set the dining room lights to "top-secret meeting" mode.
- bruce343434 5y ago
  quite the conspiracy. But I do suppose amazon sidewalk could be tapped into?

carapace 5y ago

This has already happened: smartphones and wifi. People financed it themselves by buying the things. (Wifi can see you: "The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29901587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29901587 ) FWIW, I think whether we build a dystopia or utopia depends on whether or not we can make our rulers live under the same panopticon as the rest of us.

titzer 5y ago
I don't disagree with the smartphones and WiFi, though the big 2 are highly motivated to at least secure the kernel and their own spyware. I am more thinking of these things targeting sensitive military installations or personnel. > whether or not we can make our rulers live under the same panopticon as the rest of us. Uh, nope. It's been "rules for thee and not for me" since the dawn of time.
- carapace 5y ago
  > I am more thinking of these things targeting sensitive military installations or personnel. Ah, yes, it sure would be nice to think that they're a bit more careful, but then I think of things like the OPM leak and I go cross-eyed. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management... - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about but I figured I'd add a link for anyone who didn't.) > It's been "rules for thee and not for me" since the dawn of time. Aye, but I think that's just what the panopticon could overturn, if we set it up that way. I'm not particularly hopeful, but maybe there's a possible future where we overcome our worser natures and use technology wisely. Star Trek vs. N. Korea. FWIW I call this idea the "Tyranny of Mrs. Grundy": if everyone is on the lens-end of the cameras, including police and politicians, then no one escapes censure by Mrs. Grundy. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs_Grundy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs_Grundy ) We're forced to create a "humane tyranny". "Humane tyranny" sounds like an oxymoron from today's POV, but I think the challenge is to "de-oxymoron-icize" it. Due to the advancing tech, I don't think it's optional , the panopticon will happen (it arguably already has), so the challenge is to make it more-or-less livable.