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I agree that everyone shouldn't need to know every implementation detail, but I'd argue there should be more emphasis on the low-level details in CS education.

by skohan 5y ago

I agree that everyone shouldn't need to know every implementation detail, but I'd argue there should be more emphasis on the low-level details in CS education. Programming is often approached from a purely abstract point of view, almost a branch of theoretical mathematics, but imho in 99% of cases it's better understood as the concrete task of programming a CPU to manipulate memory and hardware. That framing forces you to consider tradeoffs more carefully in terms of things like time and performance. You shouldn't be able to hand translate every line of code you write into assembly, but in my experience you write much better code if you at least have an intuition about how something would compile.

Koshkin 5y ago
This depends heavily on the context. In The Art of Computer Programming, the analysis of algorithms is done in terms of machine code. On the other hand, the proverbial centipede lost its ability to move as soon as it started wondering about how it moves.
- skohan 5y ago
  I tend to think you should be able to go back and fourth between mental models. Like obviously when you're thinking through how to set up business logic, you should not be thinking in terms of registers and memory layouts. But when you're considering two different architectural approaches, you should, at least in broad terms, be able to think about how the machine is going to execute that code and how the data is roughly going to be laid out in memory for instance.
LEDThereBeLight 5y ago
I think that's the difference between computer science and programming. Yes, you'll be a better programmer if you focus on the low-level details, but you'll be a worse computer scientist. I guess, if your goal is to write optimizations, focus on details. If your goal is to find solutions or think creatively, focus on abstractions. Obviously, there’s a lot of overlap, but I’m not sure how else to describe it.
- skohan 5y ago
  I disagree that you'll be a worse computer scientist. Computer science doesn't happen in Plato's heaven, it happens in real processors and memory. I tend to think focusing on abstractions is almost always the wrong approach. Abstractions should arise naturally as a solution to certain problems, like excess repetition, but you should almost always start as concrete as possible.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    I would disagree with where you are drawing that line. I would say that computer science does happen in Plato's heaven; software engineering happens in real processors and memory. But most of us are actually software engineers (writing programs to do something) rather than computer scientists (writing programs to learn or teach something).
    - skohan 5y ago
      I agree that there is some value to purely theoretical work, but I think this is over-valued in CS. For instance, in the first year of physics instruction at university, problems are often stated in the form of: "In a frictionless environment..." I think a lot of problems are created in the application of computer science because we treat reality as if there are no physical constraints - because often it is the case that our computers are powerful enough that we can safely ignore constraints - but in aggregate this approach leads to a lot of waste that we feel in every day life. I think incremental cost should play a larger role in CS education, and if every practitioner thought about it more we would live in a better world.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        > I think a lot of problems are created in the application of computer science because we treat reality as if there are no physical constraints - because often it is the case that our computers are powerful enough that we can safely ignore constraints - but in aggregate this approach leads to a lot of waste that we feel in every day life. ObTangent: Bitcoin.

by skohan 5y ago

Koshkin 5y ago

This depends heavily on the context. In The Art of Computer Programming, the analysis of algorithms is done in terms of machine code. On the other hand, the proverbial centipede lost its ability to move as soon as it started wondering about how it moves.

skohan 5y ago
I tend to think you should be able to go back and fourth between mental models. Like obviously when you're thinking through how to set up business logic, you should not be thinking in terms of registers and memory layouts. But when you're considering two different architectural approaches, you should, at least in broad terms, be able to think about how the machine is going to execute that code and how the data is roughly going to be laid out in memory for instance.

LEDThereBeLight 5y ago

I think that's the difference between computer science and programming. Yes, you'll be a better programmer if you focus on the low-level details, but you'll be a worse computer scientist. I guess, if your goal is to write optimizations, focus on details. If your goal is to find solutions or think creatively, focus on abstractions. Obviously, there’s a lot of overlap, but I’m not sure how else to describe it.

skohan 5y ago
I disagree that you'll be a worse computer scientist. Computer science doesn't happen in Plato's heaven, it happens in real processors and memory. I tend to think focusing on abstractions is almost always the wrong approach. Abstractions should arise naturally as a solution to certain problems, like excess repetition, but you should almost always start as concrete as possible.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  I would disagree with where you are drawing that line. I would say that computer science does happen in Plato's heaven; software engineering happens in real processors and memory. But most of us are actually software engineers (writing programs to do something) rather than computer scientists (writing programs to learn or teach something).
  - skohan 5y ago
    I agree that there is some value to purely theoretical work, but I think this is over-valued in CS. For instance, in the first year of physics instruction at university, problems are often stated in the form of: "In a frictionless environment..." I think a lot of problems are created in the application of computer science because we treat reality as if there are no physical constraints - because often it is the case that our computers are powerful enough that we can safely ignore constraints - but in aggregate this approach leads to a lot of waste that we feel in every day life. I think incremental cost should play a larger role in CS education, and if every practitioner thought about it more we would live in a better world.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > I think a lot of problems are created in the application of computer science because we treat reality as if there are no physical constraints - because often it is the case that our computers are powerful enough that we can safely ignore constraints - but in aggregate this approach leads to a lot of waste that we feel in every day life. ObTangent: Bitcoin.