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So... A privatized hospital, the epitome of US free market radicalism, is suing to prevent their workers from freely participating in the local work market? Se

So... A privatized hospital, the epitome of US free market radicalism, is suing to prevent their workers from freely participating in the local work market? Seems like a good summary of what "free" markets actually look like in practice and with what entitlement the people operate who benefit from them.

diordiderot 5y ago
Not only did they sue. They won an injunction preventing their employees from taking the new job. Now they get to feel the full force of modern klepto-capitalism wrapped around their necks as bills come due. Land of the free. EDIT: It seems they've been allowed to take the new job as of yesterday. Here's the filing https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/ascensionbriefjan24.pdf https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/ascensionbriefjan24....
- vmception 5y ago
  > Land of the free. I mean the hospital feels that way. People that came here and set up entire states to do opposite things of the directly neighboring state felt that way. The lawyer moonlighting as a poet who started that meme while actual soldiers were fighting felt that way. It was never a quote for the - lol - proleteriat and the lyrics delayed its use as a slogan and anthem for over a hundred years.
- slabity 5y ago
  They received a temporary restraining order up until today's hearing for the actual injunction to keep the employees until new ones could be hired. [1] The injunction itself was not granted thankfully. Edit: I should have started with at least a source: [1]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/thedacare-vs-ascension-returns-to-court-after-temporary-restraining-order-granted/ar-AAT5MIP https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/thedacare-vs-ascension-...
- cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  > Wisconsin health care workers will be allowed to start new jobs at Ascension after judge dismisses temporary restraining order https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/24/thedacare-ascension-court-over-health-care-worker-employment/6635683001/ https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/24/thedacare... You are welcome!
- refurb 5y ago
  They won in the end.
  - Natsu 5y ago
    You mean Ascension, right? ThedaCare's TRO was dissolved once it became clear that it wasn't going to protect any patients from ThedaCare's stupidity and they've already had to pay some damages to the affected employees per my understanding.
  - michaelt 5y ago
    It's absurd that, in an at-will state, there was even a temporary restraining order. And there's no guarantee it would have been fixed so promptly without the national publicity this received. Not everyone is rich enough that they can lose a week's wages - to say nothing of the legal costs involved.
praptak 5y ago
"The principle of really existing free market theory is: free markets are fine for you, but not for me." -- Noam Chomsky
- _0ffh 5y ago
  Yeah, and as usual it's the state that is called upon to shield them from the pressures of the free market. Because, really, who else could?
CogitoCogito 5y ago
> So... A privatized hospital, the epitome of US free market radicalism, is suing to prevent their workers from freely participating in the local work market? I guess the real mistake ThedaCare made was not monopolizing the local market. If all local medical services were handled under ThedaCare's roof, they wouldn't have to worry about this sort of competitive pressure. Sure they'd still need to worry about people leaving the local area for a new job, but that's enough to help suppress wages. I'm sure that hospital system consolidation will continue make such legal embarrassment unnecessary in the future.
nwallin 5y ago
Healthcare is the most heavily regulated consumer oriented industry in the United States. This is a summary of the most heavily regulated consumer market in the country and a government abusing its regulatory authority to prevent workers from freely participating in the labor market. Nothing about the healthcare market is a free market. Want to know how much your procedure is going to cost before you're expected to pay for it? No, price discovery/transparency is not a thing. Want to shop for the best price? Not possible. Want to switch healthcare providers? You'll need to change your job, and if you're not lucky enough to have employer sponsored/controlled healthcare, you'll have to wait until the new year. You're a healthcare worker who's being mistreated/underpaid by your employer and you want to quit and get a better job on the "open" job market? The government won't let you do that.
- nosianu 5y ago
  > Healthcare is the most heavily regulated consumer oriented industry in the United States. Did those regulations pertain to this labor dispute? If not then I think this is a strawman. > a government abusing its regulatory authority to prevent workers from freely participating in the labor market. and > The government won't let you do that. It wasn't the government that gave that ruling. Since as bewaretheirs says in their comment elsewhere that ruling was vacated it was not even any law made by government that you can blame. > Want to know how much your procedure is going to cost before you're expected to pay for it? No, price discovery/transparency is not a thing. And that intransparency is something mandated by government? I'm asking, I don't know, it surprises me from what I know from just following discussions. The government prevents hospitals and MDs from disclosing their prices?
  - jtc331 5y ago
    The court is a part of the government so when they do something it’s accurate to say “the government did…”
onion2k 5y ago
US free market radicalism The US is not a free market, and very few people who run companies believe it should be (they say they do, but they don't in practise). Most business leaders want their company to have a government-protected monopoly. That's why there's so much lobbying.
- 7thaccount 5y ago
  My econ book has some quotes that basically say "competition is for losers" and that the goal for all companies is to be "lazy monopolists". Once a monopoly, they'll raise prices, but not by too much as to elicit public outcry or signal large companies to lobby for the removal of the monopoly.

diordiderot 5y ago

Not only did they sue. They won an injunction preventing their employees from taking the new job. Now they get to feel the full force of modern klepto-capitalism wrapped around their necks as bills come due. Land of the free. EDIT: It seems they've been allowed to take the new job as of yesterday. Here's the filing https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/ascensionbriefjan24.pdf https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/ascensionbriefjan24....

vmception 5y ago
> Land of the free. I mean the hospital feels that way. People that came here and set up entire states to do opposite things of the directly neighboring state felt that way. The lawyer moonlighting as a poet who started that meme while actual soldiers were fighting felt that way. It was never a quote for the - lol - proleteriat and the lyrics delayed its use as a slogan and anthem for over a hundred years.
slabity 5y ago
They received a temporary restraining order up until today's hearing for the actual injunction to keep the employees until new ones could be hired. [1] The injunction itself was not granted thankfully. Edit: I should have started with at least a source: [1]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/thedacare-vs-ascension-returns-to-court-after-temporary-restraining-order-granted/ar-AAT5MIP https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/thedacare-vs-ascension-...
cscurmudgeon 5y ago
> Wisconsin health care workers will be allowed to start new jobs at Ascension after judge dismisses temporary restraining order https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/24/thedacare-ascension-court-over-health-care-worker-employment/6635683001/ https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/24/thedacare... You are welcome!
refurb 5y ago
They won in the end.
- Natsu 5y ago
  You mean Ascension, right? ThedaCare's TRO was dissolved once it became clear that it wasn't going to protect any patients from ThedaCare's stupidity and they've already had to pay some damages to the affected employees per my understanding.
- michaelt 5y ago
  It's absurd that, in an at-will state, there was even a temporary restraining order. And there's no guarantee it would have been fixed so promptly without the national publicity this received. Not everyone is rich enough that they can lose a week's wages - to say nothing of the legal costs involved.

praptak 5y ago

"The principle of really existing free market theory is: free markets are fine for you, but not for me." -- Noam Chomsky

_0ffh 5y ago
Yeah, and as usual it's the state that is called upon to shield them from the pressures of the free market. Because, really, who else could?

CogitoCogito 5y ago

> So... A privatized hospital, the epitome of US free market radicalism, is suing to prevent their workers from freely participating in the local work market? I guess the real mistake ThedaCare made was not monopolizing the local market. If all local medical services were handled under ThedaCare's roof, they wouldn't have to worry about this sort of competitive pressure. Sure they'd still need to worry about people leaving the local area for a new job, but that's enough to help suppress wages. I'm sure that hospital system consolidation will continue make such legal embarrassment unnecessary in the future.

nwallin 5y ago

Healthcare is the most heavily regulated consumer oriented industry in the United States. This is a summary of the most heavily regulated consumer market in the country and a government abusing its regulatory authority to prevent workers from freely participating in the labor market. Nothing about the healthcare market is a free market. Want to know how much your procedure is going to cost before you're expected to pay for it? No, price discovery/transparency is not a thing. Want to shop for the best price? Not possible. Want to switch healthcare providers? You'll need to change your job, and if you're not lucky enough to have employer sponsored/controlled healthcare, you'll have to wait until the new year. You're a healthcare worker who's being mistreated/underpaid by your employer and you want to quit and get a better job on the "open" job market? The government won't let you do that.

nosianu 5y ago
> Healthcare is the most heavily regulated consumer oriented industry in the United States. Did those regulations pertain to this labor dispute? If not then I think this is a strawman. > a government abusing its regulatory authority to prevent workers from freely participating in the labor market. and > The government won't let you do that. It wasn't the government that gave that ruling. Since as bewaretheirs says in their comment elsewhere that ruling was vacated it was not even any law made by government that you can blame. > Want to know how much your procedure is going to cost before you're expected to pay for it? No, price discovery/transparency is not a thing. And that intransparency is something mandated by government? I'm asking, I don't know, it surprises me from what I know from just following discussions. The government prevents hospitals and MDs from disclosing their prices?
- jtc331 5y ago
  The court is a part of the government so when they do something it’s accurate to say “the government did…”

onion2k 5y ago

US free market radicalism The US is not a free market, and very few people who run companies believe it should be (they say they do, but they don't in practise). Most business leaders want their company to have a government-protected monopoly. That's why there's so much lobbying.

7thaccount 5y ago
My econ book has some quotes that basically say "competition is for losers" and that the goal for all companies is to be "lazy monopolists". Once a monopoly, they'll raise prices, but not by too much as to elicit public outcry or signal large companies to lobby for the removal of the monopoly.