4 ms·

On a side note, the temporary injunction from before was dissolved today after this finding. This filing makes it very clear how this is entirely ThedaCare's f

by Natsu 5y ago

On a side note, the temporary injunction from before was dissolved today after this finding. This filing makes it very clear how this is entirely ThedaCare's fault, how ThedaCare blindsided both Ascension and the Court with their lawsuit, that ThedaCare has many other options to care for patients without leaving them out in the cold so there's no public interest grounds for the temporary injunction, and that they also have no legal grounds for blocking this recruitment. This also seems to underscore the notion that a fish rots from the head: apparently ThedaCare's top management were in on this terrible decision. I know I wouldn't want to work there after reading this, so I won't be surprised if they get more resignations soon.

bewaretheirs 5y ago
The linked document is a legal brief from Ascension, not a finding by a judge, and represents Ascension's view of the situation. That said, the judge apparently vacated the order blocking the seven employees from starting work at Ascension: https://www.wpr.org/thedacare-loses-court-fight-keep-health-care-staff-who-resigned https://www.wpr.org/thedacare-loses-court-fight-keep-health-...
- himinlomax 5y ago
  Note that you can probably give the benefit of the doubt to Ascension here on the factual claims simply because they (or their lawyer) could get in trouble with the court for lying, while they have little to gain in this case by doing so. The most damning elements, such as Thedacare having revoked the former employees' accounts, not scheduling them and having refused to renegotiate the employment terms would be so easy to disprove that it's hard to see how they could be entirely made up.
- Natsu 5y ago
  You're not wrong, but the details on how they could hire outside contractors to save their certification and the details on how this won't harm actual patients--the only conceivable grounds for the temporary injunction as far as I'm concerned--coupled with the judge dismissing the injunction are things I find very persuasive. Some of the details in there can also be cross-checked with other things, like that posting on r/nursing. So you present a very good point that we can't take anyone's reply as gospel truth, but in this case, we do have significant corroboration for the points made in this. The points I can actually verify are more than enough for me to say that ThedaCare is full of crap and deserves to go out of business. I know that I won't be patronizing them, given any reasonable choice in the matter.
bloopernova 5y ago
I'd read in /r/nursing on Reddit that Thedacare management had months to find a solution to their problem, but for whatever reason kicked the can down the road until last week. I wonder where the disconnect was? Department director/manager panicking and underplaying the situation to their bosses? Or upper management paralyzed by the thought of paying one department better and everyone else hearing about that?
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure it was a hardball negotiation tactic that failed. The employment market hasn't been as good as it is now since before 2008, a lot of assumptions would have been built in that time about how to negotiate with employees. Those assumptions clearly aren't valid any more.
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    The surprising thing is that a judge would go along with it, since his injunction, and by extension his office, is essentially being instrumentalized as part of a negotiation tactic.
    - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
      Apparently this isn't the only time he's done something that would concern your average bystander https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/12/20/reviewer-recommends-removing-judge-mark-mcginnis-truancy-court/2369276002/ https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/12/20/reviewer-...
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      I think a temporary injunction was reasonable given the severity of theracares claims. They said ascension did something illegal and as a result, lots of 3rd party individuals will die. Taking a weekend to review and weigh the arguments from each side is what I would want to do. Remember that judges are human too and need time to review the relevant laws and think

by Natsu 5y ago

bewaretheirs 5y ago

The linked document is a legal brief from Ascension, not a finding by a judge, and represents Ascension's view of the situation. That said, the judge apparently vacated the order blocking the seven employees from starting work at Ascension: https://www.wpr.org/thedacare-loses-court-fight-keep-health-care-staff-who-resigned https://www.wpr.org/thedacare-loses-court-fight-keep-health-...

himinlomax 5y ago
Note that you can probably give the benefit of the doubt to Ascension here on the factual claims simply because they (or their lawyer) could get in trouble with the court for lying, while they have little to gain in this case by doing so. The most damning elements, such as Thedacare having revoked the former employees' accounts, not scheduling them and having refused to renegotiate the employment terms would be so easy to disprove that it's hard to see how they could be entirely made up.
Natsu 5y ago
You're not wrong, but the details on how they could hire outside contractors to save their certification and the details on how this won't harm actual patients--the only conceivable grounds for the temporary injunction as far as I'm concerned--coupled with the judge dismissing the injunction are things I find very persuasive. Some of the details in there can also be cross-checked with other things, like that posting on r/nursing. So you present a very good point that we can't take anyone's reply as gospel truth, but in this case, we do have significant corroboration for the points made in this. The points I can actually verify are more than enough for me to say that ThedaCare is full of crap and deserves to go out of business. I know that I won't be patronizing them, given any reasonable choice in the matter.

bloopernova 5y ago

I'd read in /r/nursing on Reddit that Thedacare management had months to find a solution to their problem, but for whatever reason kicked the can down the road until last week. I wonder where the disconnect was? Department director/manager panicking and underplaying the situation to their bosses? Or upper management paralyzed by the thought of paying one department better and everyone else hearing about that?

SuoDuanDao 5y ago
I'm pretty sure it was a hardball negotiation tactic that failed. The employment market hasn't been as good as it is now since before 2008, a lot of assumptions would have been built in that time about how to negotiate with employees. Those assumptions clearly aren't valid any more.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  The surprising thing is that a judge would go along with it, since his injunction, and by extension his office, is essentially being instrumentalized as part of a negotiation tactic.
  - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
    Apparently this isn't the only time he's done something that would concern your average bystander https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/12/20/reviewer-recommends-removing-judge-mark-mcginnis-truancy-court/2369276002/ https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/12/20/reviewer-...
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I think a temporary injunction was reasonable given the severity of theracares claims. They said ascension did something illegal and as a result, lots of 3rd party individuals will die. Taking a weekend to review and weigh the arguments from each side is what I would want to do. Remember that judges are human too and need time to review the relevant laws and think