4 ms·

Love that graph how art culture and commerce intermix. It is probably likely that merlot was getting a bit last year's style and this only served to accelerate

Love that graph how art culture and commerce intermix. It is probably likely that merlot was getting a bit last year's style and this only served to accelerate that. As far as I am concerned they are both lovely grapes and saying that merlot is better than pino noir is like saying that green pants are better than red pants. They are different, sure and some might like one over the other, but "better"?

burrows 5y ago
What about someone saying, “I like red pants better than green pants.”?
- tasha0663 5y ago
  20 ships? Bring me my brown pants.
josefrichter 5y ago
There’s no “better”. There’s a reason why most French and Italian wines don’t even mention the variety anywhere. Sancere, Bordeaux, Chablis, Beaujolais, Prosecco, Chianti,… Most people don’t know what variety are they, coz it’s not important really.
- sanedigital 5y ago
  Except it is important, since each of those regions has very strict laws regarding what is and isn’t allowed in the bottle. Sancerre is 100% Sauvignon Blanc, red Bordeaux some blend of six permitted grapes, Cab and Merlot being the primary ones (subregions have laws regarding which subset is allowed), Chablis is 100% Chardonnay, Beaujolais is 100% Gamay, Chianti is at least 70% Sangiovese. Wines from these regions aren’t labeled varietally because they don’t need to be. New World wines don’t have that luxury.
  - donavanm 5y ago
    I agree with the thrust of your argument but do note that rouge sancerre is definitely a thing (and I quite like it).
    - sanedigital 5y ago
      Sure, and Sancerre Rouge likewise has varietal requirements.
  - josefrichter 5y ago
    That is not the point. The point is that the grape variety is just one piece of the puzzle. Ordering wine by variety is therefore basically nonsense. It’s very common that waiter tells you we have Pinot Noir or Merlot, but without telling you at least from where they are, that information is pretty much worthless. And I’m almost sure most people can’t tell the difference anyway. I’m a lifelong wine lover, even with some education in wine tasting, and the more I know about wine, the less I’m sure I’d be able to tell them apart in blind tasting. It’s more like I roughly know what style of wine I can expect from different countries, and which varieties have good conditions in those countries and which are better avoided.
    - sanedigital 5y ago
      I’m a Certified Sommelier and I’m going to have to say agree to disagree. Yes, region is important. But varietal is by far the critical piece when predicting what a wine is going to taste like. Do some Merlots taste more like Cabs? Sure. Is an experienced wine drinker going to mistake Pinot Noir for Sauvignon Blanc, even if they’re both from Sancerre? No way.
      - josefrichter 5y ago
        Ok fair points. I think our idea of “experienced wine drinker” might be quite far apart. My guess is that maybe 5% of regular wine drinkers can identify variety from a random sample. I’m definitely not one of them and comfortable admitting that.
        sanedigital 5y ago
        There's a difference though between identifying variety from a random sample and knowing what you like. While non-experts often have trouble describing their preferences, they don't have trouble identifying them. A wine drinker with a few years of experience may not be able to tell you why they like Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz, and dislike Pinot Noir. But if you pour them a St. Laurent you shouldn't be surprised when they don't like it.
- brimble 5y ago
  The names do usually require a specific blend of grape varieties, among other things. IMO it's easier to shop this way because a specific blend from a specific region made in a specific way will have a much more consistent flavor profile than just "California Pinot Noir"—even if you get more geographically specific, the European style of labeling is a better indication of what you're gonna taste, so once you learn a few that you like, you know exactly what to look for in the store. > There’s no “better”. To nitpick, there are definitely better and worse winemaking grapes—thing is, the bad ones are only grown by necessity, as in the case that the better ones won't grow well due to e.g. weather, so for obvious reasons they only tend to feature in wine from places that aren't known for winemaking.

burrows 5y ago

What about someone saying, “I like red pants better than green pants.”?

tasha0663 5y ago
20 ships? Bring me my brown pants.

josefrichter 5y ago

There’s no “better”. There’s a reason why most French and Italian wines don’t even mention the variety anywhere. Sancere, Bordeaux, Chablis, Beaujolais, Prosecco, Chianti,… Most people don’t know what variety are they, coz it’s not important really.

sanedigital 5y ago
Except it is important, since each of those regions has very strict laws regarding what is and isn’t allowed in the bottle. Sancerre is 100% Sauvignon Blanc, red Bordeaux some blend of six permitted grapes, Cab and Merlot being the primary ones (subregions have laws regarding which subset is allowed), Chablis is 100% Chardonnay, Beaujolais is 100% Gamay, Chianti is at least 70% Sangiovese. Wines from these regions aren’t labeled varietally because they don’t need to be. New World wines don’t have that luxury.
- donavanm 5y ago
  I agree with the thrust of your argument but do note that rouge sancerre is definitely a thing (and I quite like it).
  - sanedigital 5y ago
    Sure, and Sancerre Rouge likewise has varietal requirements.
- josefrichter 5y ago
  That is not the point. The point is that the grape variety is just one piece of the puzzle. Ordering wine by variety is therefore basically nonsense. It’s very common that waiter tells you we have Pinot Noir or Merlot, but without telling you at least from where they are, that information is pretty much worthless. And I’m almost sure most people can’t tell the difference anyway. I’m a lifelong wine lover, even with some education in wine tasting, and the more I know about wine, the less I’m sure I’d be able to tell them apart in blind tasting. It’s more like I roughly know what style of wine I can expect from different countries, and which varieties have good conditions in those countries and which are better avoided.
  - sanedigital 5y ago
    I’m a Certified Sommelier and I’m going to have to say agree to disagree. Yes, region is important. But varietal is by far the critical piece when predicting what a wine is going to taste like. Do some Merlots taste more like Cabs? Sure. Is an experienced wine drinker going to mistake Pinot Noir for Sauvignon Blanc, even if they’re both from Sancerre? No way.
    - josefrichter 5y ago
      Ok fair points. I think our idea of “experienced wine drinker” might be quite far apart. My guess is that maybe 5% of regular wine drinkers can identify variety from a random sample. I’m definitely not one of them and comfortable admitting that.
      - sanedigital 5y ago
        There's a difference though between identifying variety from a random sample and knowing what you like. While non-experts often have trouble describing their preferences, they don't have trouble identifying them. A wine drinker with a few years of experience may not be able to tell you why they like Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz, and dislike Pinot Noir. But if you pour them a St. Laurent you shouldn't be surprised when they don't like it.
brimble 5y ago
The names do usually require a specific blend of grape varieties, among other things. IMO it's easier to shop this way because a specific blend from a specific region made in a specific way will have a much more consistent flavor profile than just "California Pinot Noir"—even if you get more geographically specific, the European style of labeling is a better indication of what you're gonna taste, so once you learn a few that you like, you know exactly what to look for in the store. > There’s no “better”. To nitpick, there are definitely better and worse winemaking grapes—thing is, the bad ones are only grown by necessity, as in the case that the better ones won't grow well due to e.g. weather, so for obvious reasons they only tend to feature in wine from places that aren't known for winemaking.