3 ms·

This sets the bar for an elite programmer fairly low IMHO.

biohacker42 18y ago
If you read coding horror you are a programming GOD! Alternatively, unless you instantly grok the crufties code only to instantly transform it into the best code ever, and then go home and do some more programming on the side, and then you're also a social butterfly who is never ever on the market and never has to stoop so low as to send out resumes to get a job - well then you're just a VB drone loser. I myself don't know where I fit in, because while I read lots of programming and cs related stuff, I can not do the 8+2 hrs thing, and I got my last job by sending out resumes. So I must be somewhere between god and total loser.
- j2d2 18y ago
  Do any programmers actually work only 8 hours a day..? I've never seen evidence suggesting this is actually true. 10+2 seems more realistic.
  - watmough 18y ago
    Personally, I'm worthless after 6 hours of programming. I'm decent for most of those six hours, and I can churn out maybe 3000 lines a month, but I tend to need a holiday afterwards. I just quit my cubicle job to switch to iPhone programming, and it's been interesting how hard it is to knuckle down and really get started.
  - biohacker42 18y ago
    Some don't even make it to 40hrs a week, ask DHH and crew: http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/893-workplace-experiments http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/893-workplace-experiments
  - MaysonL 18y ago
    I've worked as a programmer for over 30 years. I've had two really productive periods during that time. One of those periods I spent about 4 hours a day coding, totally focused - get to work at about 5:30 after a leisurely brunch and a 30 minute bus ride during which I planned my coding for the day, jump on a machine and pound the teletype for 4 hours or so, and go home, nearly exhausted. This was writing device driver assembler routines and image processing code. The second period, I was implementing a prototype of a distributed OS, about 10% of a 3 inch thick spec which defined the whole thing down to the level of small procedures, with a hard 6 month deadline (which was what I had estimated the job would take). I worked steadily for that 6 months on a 40 hour schedule, and finished about two weeks before the demo was given. I'm currently reading On Lisp and The Four-Gated City (by Doris Lessing), for whatever that's worth.
  - jrockway 18y ago
    I sit at a terminal for more than 8 hours a day, but I do things other than program. There are times when I have done productive work for 20 hours straight, but most of the time I do about 4-6 hours of work.
tdavis 18y ago
"Elite" can have different meanings and is only relevant in context. If you have a small library of programming books you've read and you're constantly gaining new knowledge, you are "elite" compared to all the people who write bank software in Java that they learned once 5 years ago. If someone they describe is in the top 5-10%, there are still folks in the top 4-1% and at some point it becomes ridiculously difficult to get anymore "Elite" without prodigy-like skill. I read a lot of books and am skilled in numerous computer-related areas including programming, but Linus Torvalds I am not.
jrockway 18y ago
Agreed. When was the last time Joel wrote about programming? I don't think he ever has -- he just writes about demanding that your boss buy you an expensive chair. I hate to tell you, but the way you get good at programming is by programming, not reading feel-good essays about how great you are. (I have a cheap IKEA chair. I like it.) Jeff occasionally has programming content on his blog, but he doesn't offer much insight. The most intelligent thing I heard him say was "XSS is bad, escape user data when embedding it in HTML!" A good message, but one that everyone should have heard about 10 years ago. This is not the kind of stuff the elite read. LtU is.

If you read coding horror you are a programming GOD! Alternatively, unless you instantly grok the crufties code only to instantly transform it into the best code ever, and then go home and do some more programming on the side, and then you're also a social butterfly who is never ever on the market and never has to stoop so low as to send out resumes to get a job - well then you're just a VB drone loser. I myself don't know where I fit in, because while I read lots of programming and cs related stuff, I can not do the 8+2 hrs thing, and I got my last job by sending out resumes. So I must be somewhere between god and total loser.

j2d2 18y ago
Do any programmers actually work only 8 hours a day..? I've never seen evidence suggesting this is actually true. 10+2 seems more realistic.
- watmough 18y ago
  Personally, I'm worthless after 6 hours of programming. I'm decent for most of those six hours, and I can churn out maybe 3000 lines a month, but I tend to need a holiday afterwards. I just quit my cubicle job to switch to iPhone programming, and it's been interesting how hard it is to knuckle down and really get started.
- biohacker42 18y ago
  Some don't even make it to 40hrs a week, ask DHH and crew: http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/893-workplace-experiments http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/893-workplace-experiments
- MaysonL 18y ago
  I've worked as a programmer for over 30 years. I've had two really productive periods during that time. One of those periods I spent about 4 hours a day coding, totally focused - get to work at about 5:30 after a leisurely brunch and a 30 minute bus ride during which I planned my coding for the day, jump on a machine and pound the teletype for 4 hours or so, and go home, nearly exhausted. This was writing device driver assembler routines and image processing code. The second period, I was implementing a prototype of a distributed OS, about 10% of a 3 inch thick spec which defined the whole thing down to the level of small procedures, with a hard 6 month deadline (which was what I had estimated the job would take). I worked steadily for that 6 months on a 40 hour schedule, and finished about two weeks before the demo was given. I'm currently reading On Lisp and The Four-Gated City (by Doris Lessing), for whatever that's worth.
- jrockway 18y ago
  I sit at a terminal for more than 8 hours a day, but I do things other than program. There are times when I have done productive work for 20 hours straight, but most of the time I do about 4-6 hours of work.

tdavis 18y ago

"Elite" can have different meanings and is only relevant in context. If you have a small library of programming books you've read and you're constantly gaining new knowledge, you are "elite" compared to all the people who write bank software in Java that they learned once 5 years ago. If someone they describe is in the top 5-10%, there are still folks in the top 4-1% and at some point it becomes ridiculously difficult to get anymore "Elite" without prodigy-like skill. I read a lot of books and am skilled in numerous computer-related areas including programming, but Linus Torvalds I am not.

jrockway 18y ago

Agreed. When was the last time Joel wrote about programming? I don't think he ever has -- he just writes about demanding that your boss buy you an expensive chair. I hate to tell you, but the way you get good at programming is by programming, not reading feel-good essays about how great you are. (I have a cheap IKEA chair. I like it.) Jeff occasionally has programming content on his blog, but he doesn't offer much insight. The most intelligent thing I heard him say was "XSS is bad, escape user data when embedding it in HTML!" A good message, but one that everyone should have heard about 10 years ago. This is not the kind of stuff the elite read. LtU is.