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I am surprised that Matthieu did not address this question head-on: > This brings me to a critical issue: the side effects of meditation. One could argue that

I am surprised that Matthieu did not address this question head-on: > This brings me to a critical issue: the side effects of meditation. One could argue that a strategy consisting of closing one’s eyes when facing conflicts, in escaping from problems rather than solving them, is perhaps a suboptimal strategy. In Dzogchen meditation (which is his main practice), one does not close one's eyes or always sit in a special posture. It is engaged with real life. There is no "escaping" of any sort whatsoever. Thoughts arise as they normally do; it is only the method of dealing with them that differs (both from our usual habits and from other approaches like mindfulness as it is normally understood).

lukasb 5y ago
I think he did address it: "True meditation, however, is not just taking a break. It is not simply closing one’s eyes to the problem for a while. Meditation goes to the root of the problem. You need to become aware of the destructive aspect of compulsive attachment and all of the conflictive mental states that you mentioned. "
- monktastic1 5y ago
  I saw that. This quote can still give the impression that it is not closing one's eyes "to the problem," but is still about closing one's physical eyes. Or that it's about closing one's eyes to the problem for a bit (but not "a while.") I didn't see it clearly communicated that Dzogchen meditation is something does while in the very situations that WS is talking about.
dbtc 5y ago
Closing one's eyes can be very helpful for becoming conscious of subtle things, especially for those who, like me, are hyperliterate screen fiends. Sitting with good posture in a dark room also really helps. An isolation tank is good too, I have heard. But none are necessary. Just good tools when applied properly. And sometimes it's best to go for a walk, think it through, or sit for a while. Other times it's best to act without hesitation.A big part of the skill is knowing when to do what. That's my take.
- ffhhj 5y ago
  When I forget something I quickly close my eyes and clear my mind, take a deep and slow breath and the idea usually emerges again before exhaling. It takes 2-5 seconds and I will continue with my mind busy. Not sure if that's a known meditation technique, but it's the most useful I've found to get back on track.
andrei_says_ 5y ago
What is a good resource for descriptions of some Dzogchen meditation practices?
- mtalantikite 5y ago
  A 12 week course I took recently on dzogchen/atiyoga used “Weapon of Light” [1] as a main text and “The Flight of the Garuda” [2] as a supplemental one. [1] https://www.skypressbooks.com/weapon-of-light https://www.skypressbooks.com/weapon-of-light [2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2508146.The_Flight_of_the_Garuda https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2508146.The_Flight_of_th...
- monktastic1 5y ago
  Getting the practice just right seems to require personal connection with a master for whatever reason, but Sam Harris does a pretty good job of communicating the essence of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPWiEaOlfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPWiEaOlfc. There are also lots of resources you can find online, though I can't say I recommend any one in particular. It is the kind of thing that requires a precise fit and the right conditions.
  - kranner 5y ago
    There seems to be an endless variety of Pointing Out / Rushen instructions in Dzogchen. Some work better than others for individual meditators. But personally I feel there's a strong placebo component to it as well. If you come in with a) good baseline concentration, b) an expectation of receiving real wisdom from a guru that you are in some awe of, you might be much more receptive than someone who stumbles into such a thing and treats it as another tourist attraction. The Pointing Out experience seems like a kind of hypnosis session; it matters how receptive you are at the moment. Personally I don't think there's anything to the Dzogchen psychic connection its adherents claim you need to establish with a guru to experience the real thing. It's just woo woo influenced by Shaktipat from Hinduism. In my opinion one of the best Western teachers is Loch Kelly. Although he doesn't call it Dzogchen, it seems to be pretty much the same thing and without the maddening obscurantism of Dzogchen texts translated to English. He has a lot of videos out but I liked this (paid) Vimeo course: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/lochkellyhow/ https://vimeo.com/ondemand/lochkellyhow/

lukasb 5y ago

I think he did address it: "True meditation, however, is not just taking a break. It is not simply closing one’s eyes to the problem for a while. Meditation goes to the root of the problem. You need to become aware of the destructive aspect of compulsive attachment and all of the conflictive mental states that you mentioned. "

monktastic1 5y ago
I saw that. This quote can still give the impression that it is not closing one's eyes "to the problem," but is still about closing one's physical eyes. Or that it's about closing one's eyes to the problem for a bit (but not "a while.") I didn't see it clearly communicated that Dzogchen meditation is something does while in the very situations that WS is talking about.

dbtc 5y ago

Closing one's eyes can be very helpful for becoming conscious of subtle things, especially for those who, like me, are hyperliterate screen fiends. Sitting with good posture in a dark room also really helps. An isolation tank is good too, I have heard. But none are necessary. Just good tools when applied properly. And sometimes it's best to go for a walk, think it through, or sit for a while. Other times it's best to act without hesitation.A big part of the skill is knowing when to do what. That's my take.

ffhhj 5y ago
When I forget something I quickly close my eyes and clear my mind, take a deep and slow breath and the idea usually emerges again before exhaling. It takes 2-5 seconds and I will continue with my mind busy. Not sure if that's a known meditation technique, but it's the most useful I've found to get back on track.

andrei_says_ 5y ago

What is a good resource for descriptions of some Dzogchen meditation practices?

mtalantikite 5y ago
A 12 week course I took recently on dzogchen/atiyoga used “Weapon of Light” [1] as a main text and “The Flight of the Garuda” [2] as a supplemental one. [1] https://www.skypressbooks.com/weapon-of-light https://www.skypressbooks.com/weapon-of-light [2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2508146.The_Flight_of_the_Garuda https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2508146.The_Flight_of_th...
monktastic1 5y ago
Getting the practice just right seems to require personal connection with a master for whatever reason, but Sam Harris does a pretty good job of communicating the essence of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPWiEaOlfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPWiEaOlfc. There are also lots of resources you can find online, though I can't say I recommend any one in particular. It is the kind of thing that requires a precise fit and the right conditions.
- kranner 5y ago
  There seems to be an endless variety of Pointing Out / Rushen instructions in Dzogchen. Some work better than others for individual meditators. But personally I feel there's a strong placebo component to it as well. If you come in with a) good baseline concentration, b) an expectation of receiving real wisdom from a guru that you are in some awe of, you might be much more receptive than someone who stumbles into such a thing and treats it as another tourist attraction. The Pointing Out experience seems like a kind of hypnosis session; it matters how receptive you are at the moment. Personally I don't think there's anything to the Dzogchen psychic connection its adherents claim you need to establish with a guru to experience the real thing. It's just woo woo influenced by Shaktipat from Hinduism. In my opinion one of the best Western teachers is Loch Kelly. Although he doesn't call it Dzogchen, it seems to be pretty much the same thing and without the maddening obscurantism of Dzogchen texts translated to English. He has a lot of videos out but I liked this (paid) Vimeo course: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/lochkellyhow/ https://vimeo.com/ondemand/lochkellyhow/