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Which is a problem of its own, since they're effectively usernames. Secure usernames that have no corresponding password is already an oxymoron; that's what cr

Which is a problem of its own, since they're effectively usernames. Secure usernames that have no corresponding password is already an oxymoron; that's what credit card numbers used to be, hence the introduction of the CVV, 3DSecure and so on; but at least a credit card can be blocked with relative ease. But SSNs are secure unchangeable usernames, which makes even less sense. Do any countries other than the US have such an abomination, where you can figure out the SSN of someone and ruin their life?

spicybright 5y ago
Not that I know of. It really is a horrible system. But it's not one I want Google trying to solve.
AnthonyMouse 5y ago
You can actually change your social security number in the circumstance of "victim of identity theft continues to be disadvantaged by using the original number": https://faq.ssa.gov/en-us/Topic/article/KA-02220 https://faq.ssa.gov/en-us/Topic/article/KA-02220 It's a huge pain, obviously. Especially when you get to all the systems which blindly assume it isn't possible. But you can do it. They ought to just open it up and let anyone who requests to change it once a year no questions asked.
- tempestn 5y ago
  Which would have the benefit of forcing those systems to be updated. Agreed.
- bonzini 5y ago
  Doesn't it reset your credit history? (Which you reluctantly want if you were the victim of identity theft, but not yearly)
C19is20 5y ago
Italy: https://ilmiocf.it https://ilmiocf.it lets you generate your equivalent of an ssn (fiscal code). And, yes...if you know someone's very basic details you have the number. For US viewers, enter 'stati uniti' as 'comune di nascita'. Use deepl.com for the bit at the bottom.
- azernik 5y ago
  Whereas in Israel, a national ID number is treated as just that - an ID number. You put it on every single contract you sign, on most bureaucratic forms, &c, and it's used to match up individual identity rather than names. On many online services, your ID number is your username, and your password is chosen per-service.
  - bonzini 5y ago
    It's the same in Italy, actually. The poster above is incorrect.
- bonzini 5y ago
  Why is it always Italians shitting on the country without knowing what they're talking about? This is absolutely not comparable. You can't ruin someone's life if you have their codice fiscale (source: am Italian). Most countries do have some kind of id number like that, but they always have a "password" too. In Italy authentication is done by the SPID providers[1] or with an electronic id card (or physically with an id card, driving license or passport). You can't get a credit card and spend as much as you want in their name. You need at least a stolen or counterfeit physical document to open a bank account, or a stolen password and a SPID second factor to file a fraudulent tax return. In the US the SSN is often enough unless you opt into freezing credit. [1] for non Italians, that's the acronym for public digital identity system; it's a SAML-based authentication mechanism used by most public websites including tax returns, pension/welfare, and healthcare
  - C19is20 5y ago
    Read again "Italy: https://ilmiocf.it https://ilmiocf.it lets you generate your equivalent of an ssn (fiscal code). And, yes...if you know someone's very basic details you have the number." I did not say you can "ruin someone's life" with it. I very clearly wrote "if you know someone's very basic details you have the number". No more, no less. If I knew the details of Milano Bonzini, born in Milano on 10/10/2010 then this is (probably) their codice: BNZMLN10R10F205U. I thought the site would be __fun__ for foreigners (US, but not only) on HN, maybe if they have Italian heritage, they can work out nonna's number. The "stampa codice a barre", is equally fun and I know several visitors that have printed it out to go with their holiday memories.

spicybright 5y ago

Not that I know of. It really is a horrible system. But it's not one I want Google trying to solve.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago

You can actually change your social security number in the circumstance of "victim of identity theft continues to be disadvantaged by using the original number": https://faq.ssa.gov/en-us/Topic/article/KA-02220 https://faq.ssa.gov/en-us/Topic/article/KA-02220 It's a huge pain, obviously. Especially when you get to all the systems which blindly assume it isn't possible. But you can do it. They ought to just open it up and let anyone who requests to change it once a year no questions asked.

tempestn 5y ago
Which would have the benefit of forcing those systems to be updated. Agreed.
bonzini 5y ago
Doesn't it reset your credit history? (Which you reluctantly want if you were the victim of identity theft, but not yearly)

C19is20 5y ago

Italy: https://ilmiocf.it https://ilmiocf.it lets you generate your equivalent of an ssn (fiscal code). And, yes...if you know someone's very basic details you have the number. For US viewers, enter 'stati uniti' as 'comune di nascita'. Use deepl.com for the bit at the bottom.

azernik 5y ago
Whereas in Israel, a national ID number is treated as just that - an ID number. You put it on every single contract you sign, on most bureaucratic forms, &c, and it's used to match up individual identity rather than names. On many online services, your ID number is your username, and your password is chosen per-service.
- bonzini 5y ago
  It's the same in Italy, actually. The poster above is incorrect.
bonzini 5y ago
Why is it always Italians shitting on the country without knowing what they're talking about? This is absolutely not comparable. You can't ruin someone's life if you have their codice fiscale (source: am Italian). Most countries do have some kind of id number like that, but they always have a "password" too. In Italy authentication is done by the SPID providers[1] or with an electronic id card (or physically with an id card, driving license or passport). You can't get a credit card and spend as much as you want in their name. You need at least a stolen or counterfeit physical document to open a bank account, or a stolen password and a SPID second factor to file a fraudulent tax return. In the US the SSN is often enough unless you opt into freezing credit. [1] for non Italians, that's the acronym for public digital identity system; it's a SAML-based authentication mechanism used by most public websites including tax returns, pension/welfare, and healthcare
- C19is20 5y ago
  Read again "Italy: https://ilmiocf.it https://ilmiocf.it lets you generate your equivalent of an ssn (fiscal code). And, yes...if you know someone's very basic details you have the number." I did not say you can "ruin someone's life" with it. I very clearly wrote "if you know someone's very basic details you have the number". No more, no less. If I knew the details of Milano Bonzini, born in Milano on 10/10/2010 then this is (probably) their codice: BNZMLN10R10F205U. I thought the site would be __fun__ for foreigners (US, but not only) on HN, maybe if they have Italian heritage, they can work out nonna's number. The "stampa codice a barre", is equally fun and I know several visitors that have printed it out to go with their holiday memories.