5 ms·

"What is stored on the blockchain is most often a link to a web page[6] that itself points to the associated object. Here again, we have lost all idea of decent

by kreas 5y ago

"What is stored on the blockchain is most often a link to a web page[6] that itself points to the associated object. Here again, we have lost all idea of decentralization" No where in the article did the author mention IPFS (https://ipfs.io/ https://ipfs.io/). The trend with NFTs is that the digital assets are stored on IPFS, typically through a pinning service like Pinata (https://www.pinata.cloud/ https://www.pinata.cloud/). With the asset being content addressable and not location based, and the address being a permanent part of the blockchain, how can the above statement be true?

p4bl0 5y ago
It is very rare I wouldn't call it a "trend" yet. Also, I agree that using IPFS links addresses the problem of content integrity, but the link can still rot, and having to pay a centralized service to pin your data (even in a decentralized network like IPFS) does not solve the decentralization and disintermediation problems.
- kreas 5y ago
  Link rot is definitely a fair point. I'm curious if there is a longterm way of solving this problem. Filecoin looks promising but I feel like that's just adding more complexity.
  - galaxyyy 5y ago
    The surviving NFT projects that will require no active maintenance in the next 10 years will be the ones who fully dedicated to on-chain only (cryptopunks, chainrunners, etc). Unless there is an active community that maintains its strength during market cycles (like BAYC), current NFT project death will be 95% over the next 10 years, just like a start-up.
- Dma54rhs 5y ago
  Why these platforms don't use hash of a file inside blockchain as bare minimum. Shouldn't be too expensive to store that data? Hash would represent the "original" no matter where is it hosted on the future.
  - stnikolauswagne 5y ago
    The way I understand it (and I might be totally wrong here) is that ipfs links do contain the hash of the file stored, so by putting an ifps link as the token URI you are both providing the content hash as well as a way to actually locate the content.
- miracle2k 5y ago
  It's more than a trend. All the major art platforms and a lot of the major collections host in IPFS.
vmception 5y ago
There are also plenty of NFTs with the images embedded directly onchain. Whether base64 binary with an image mimetype or encoded as an SVG. NFT users and buyers will begin to care as domain names for dead projects expire over the next year. To me, it is really strange how people see flaws in an implementation and don't even look for the other people that are working on improving those flaws. The market is saying "hey, you perceive flaws, go make hundreds of millions offering improved products, you don't even need outside capital to do so!" but I guess it's always been this way, have fun writing blog posts.
- 8note 5y ago
  How do those handle DMCA takedowns?
  - vmception 5y ago
    It wouldn't? I'm not sure the question? An NFT with no reliance on third party infrastructure, as described above, would have no ability for denial of service. More analogous to a non-digital art piece, where only third party individuals or companies that are digitally presenting an existing piece could be coerced by the arm of the state to stop displaying it via a DMCA request, but the existing piece still exists for anyone physically present to see. The NFT would just transcend geography in this case. So a marketplace like OpenSea or a digital gallery could potentially receive a DMCA request. Galleries with unknown owners are likely going to become more prevalent. It's up to the communities and potential purchasers to be discerning about what they interact with or buy, not really a standard to place on the technology thats a higher standard than other media. NFTs aren't here to solve plagiarism and unauthorized distribution. For a previous NFT work being re-released by someone else, consumers should check with the official community first before trying to acquire that contract. For an NFT work that wasn't previously issued (like a famous artist putting their stuff onchain suddenly now), they should do greater due diligence.
    - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
      so basically we should throw away millennia of history and trial and error to reboot our societies using a technology that doesn't even work without an internet connection and a very fast computing device?

by kreas 5y ago

p4bl0 5y ago

It is very rare I wouldn't call it a "trend" yet. Also, I agree that using IPFS links addresses the problem of content integrity, but the link can still rot, and having to pay a centralized service to pin your data (even in a decentralized network like IPFS) does not solve the decentralization and disintermediation problems.

kreas 5y ago
Link rot is definitely a fair point. I'm curious if there is a longterm way of solving this problem. Filecoin looks promising but I feel like that's just adding more complexity.
- galaxyyy 5y ago
  The surviving NFT projects that will require no active maintenance in the next 10 years will be the ones who fully dedicated to on-chain only (cryptopunks, chainrunners, etc). Unless there is an active community that maintains its strength during market cycles (like BAYC), current NFT project death will be 95% over the next 10 years, just like a start-up.
Dma54rhs 5y ago
Why these platforms don't use hash of a file inside blockchain as bare minimum. Shouldn't be too expensive to store that data? Hash would represent the "original" no matter where is it hosted on the future.
- stnikolauswagne 5y ago
  The way I understand it (and I might be totally wrong here) is that ipfs links do contain the hash of the file stored, so by putting an ifps link as the token URI you are both providing the content hash as well as a way to actually locate the content.
miracle2k 5y ago
It's more than a trend. All the major art platforms and a lot of the major collections host in IPFS.

vmception 5y ago

There are also plenty of NFTs with the images embedded directly onchain. Whether base64 binary with an image mimetype or encoded as an SVG. NFT users and buyers will begin to care as domain names for dead projects expire over the next year. To me, it is really strange how people see flaws in an implementation and don't even look for the other people that are working on improving those flaws. The market is saying "hey, you perceive flaws, go make hundreds of millions offering improved products, you don't even need outside capital to do so!" but I guess it's always been this way, have fun writing blog posts.

8note 5y ago
How do those handle DMCA takedowns?
- vmception 5y ago
  It wouldn't? I'm not sure the question? An NFT with no reliance on third party infrastructure, as described above, would have no ability for denial of service. More analogous to a non-digital art piece, where only third party individuals or companies that are digitally presenting an existing piece could be coerced by the arm of the state to stop displaying it via a DMCA request, but the existing piece still exists for anyone physically present to see. The NFT would just transcend geography in this case. So a marketplace like OpenSea or a digital gallery could potentially receive a DMCA request. Galleries with unknown owners are likely going to become more prevalent. It's up to the communities and potential purchasers to be discerning about what they interact with or buy, not really a standard to place on the technology thats a higher standard than other media. NFTs aren't here to solve plagiarism and unauthorized distribution. For a previous NFT work being re-released by someone else, consumers should check with the official community first before trying to acquire that contract. For an NFT work that wasn't previously issued (like a famous artist putting their stuff onchain suddenly now), they should do greater due diligence.
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    so basically we should throw away millennia of history and trial and error to reboot our societies using a technology that doesn't even work without an internet connection and a very fast computing device?