4 ms·

-> ...currently afraid ... of jabs ... will change their mind ... The group who are in good health, who had the Delta variant and can prove it via antigen test

-> ...currently afraid ... of jabs ... will change their mind ... The group who are in good health, who had the Delta variant and can prove it via antigen test results and Dr. letter of recovery, may not be afraid of the jabs. Instead, maybe they think their sterilizing immunity is the logical progression for those in good health and better than non-sterilizing jabs.

michaelmrose 5y ago
I thought the best science was that those who had had covid were actually better off with the vaccination as well. I had also heard pre print suggestion that those who had only acquired omicron without prior vaccination or delta may not have good neutralization of delta. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.13.22269243v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.13.22269243v... This wouldn't seem to bear on what you have said because you were very specific about antigen testing and a doctors letter that you had recovered from covid but people are fantastically bad at making such fine distinctions about things they poorly understand and many who are unvaccinated seemed sure they had had covid even when the illness they proposed was prior to the advent of covid in country. Their logic is in general so bad that they literally changed the date of covid impacting their nation to account for this disparity instead of concluding that their illness back in 2019 was unlikely to be covid. By January 2022 everyone who hasn't vaccinated has "had covid" whether they have actually had it or not and any differential in public policy towards unvaccinated people who have recovered is likely to result in disadvantage for society at large.
- kodah 5y ago
  I had COVID-19 pre-vaccines and I've received a booster. Ancedotally, I'm the only person I know at this point that hasn't gotten Omicron; though I'm not really sure that's relevant. I also live in the Bay Area, so it's not like I'm not being exposed when I go to the bar.
- landemva 5y ago
  This CDC statement provides updates to large study. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm 'By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.' Yes - 'you were very specific about antigen testing and a doctors letter that you had recovered from covid'.
  - 3hoss 5y ago
    But, that's not what sterilising immunity means. The fact that previously infected individuals were infected again means that their natural infection did not provide sterilising immunity. Better immunity? That's debatable, but it's not, by any definition I've seen, sterilising immunity.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    There is firstly a survivorship bias. People who survived covid once were on average healthier than the people that died. Next people who got vaccinated alone and managed to avoid catching covid entirely had the lowest mortality followed by those who got vaccinated before catching covid. To say that given 2 different priors one is superior to the other and ergo one should behave such is wrong because it doesn't consider the cost of the prior. Considering the full cost you aren't better off getting covid and in most cases all of society is better off and ergo you yourself on net as well if you avoid it as long as possible so as to spread it out and get it when resources are available to treat you and because quality of treatment goes up over time as more treatments become available and as importantly more broadly available.
    - landemva 5y ago
      '... you aren't better off getting covid ...' When the lockdowns started in USA I took some days to consider the possibilities while still out "in the field" in the work truck. Since the virus passes between humans and animals such as deer and cats where it mutates, it was apparent I would be exposed at some time. I chose a course of action to make peace with my family, my God, and to remain vigilant about diet and health. A year later I got it and recovered at home. It is generally not going to be a choice to avoid this virus. Hopefully it continues to mutate to be highly transmissible and less harmful like the seasonal flu.

michaelmrose 5y ago

I thought the best science was that those who had had covid were actually better off with the vaccination as well. I had also heard pre print suggestion that those who had only acquired omicron without prior vaccination or delta may not have good neutralization of delta. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.13.22269243v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.13.22269243v... This wouldn't seem to bear on what you have said because you were very specific about antigen testing and a doctors letter that you had recovered from covid but people are fantastically bad at making such fine distinctions about things they poorly understand and many who are unvaccinated seemed sure they had had covid even when the illness they proposed was prior to the advent of covid in country. Their logic is in general so bad that they literally changed the date of covid impacting their nation to account for this disparity instead of concluding that their illness back in 2019 was unlikely to be covid. By January 2022 everyone who hasn't vaccinated has "had covid" whether they have actually had it or not and any differential in public policy towards unvaccinated people who have recovered is likely to result in disadvantage for society at large.

kodah 5y ago
I had COVID-19 pre-vaccines and I've received a booster. Ancedotally, I'm the only person I know at this point that hasn't gotten Omicron; though I'm not really sure that's relevant. I also live in the Bay Area, so it's not like I'm not being exposed when I go to the bar.
landemva 5y ago
This CDC statement provides updates to large study. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm 'By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.' Yes - 'you were very specific about antigen testing and a doctors letter that you had recovered from covid'.
- 3hoss 5y ago
  But, that's not what sterilising immunity means. The fact that previously infected individuals were infected again means that their natural infection did not provide sterilising immunity. Better immunity? That's debatable, but it's not, by any definition I've seen, sterilising immunity.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  There is firstly a survivorship bias. People who survived covid once were on average healthier than the people that died. Next people who got vaccinated alone and managed to avoid catching covid entirely had the lowest mortality followed by those who got vaccinated before catching covid. To say that given 2 different priors one is superior to the other and ergo one should behave such is wrong because it doesn't consider the cost of the prior. Considering the full cost you aren't better off getting covid and in most cases all of society is better off and ergo you yourself on net as well if you avoid it as long as possible so as to spread it out and get it when resources are available to treat you and because quality of treatment goes up over time as more treatments become available and as importantly more broadly available.
  - landemva 5y ago
    '... you aren't better off getting covid ...' When the lockdowns started in USA I took some days to consider the possibilities while still out "in the field" in the work truck. Since the virus passes between humans and animals such as deer and cats where it mutates, it was apparent I would be exposed at some time. I chose a course of action to make peace with my family, my God, and to remain vigilant about diet and health. A year later I got it and recovered at home. It is generally not going to be a choice to avoid this virus. Hopefully it continues to mutate to be highly transmissible and less harmful like the seasonal flu.