4 ms·

Having every move I make, including every fill-up catalogued for corps and govts then sold to a string of highest bidders is a non-starter for me. Luckily don'

Having every move I make, including every fill-up catalogued for corps and govts then sold to a string of highest bidders is a non-starter for me. Luckily don't drive much, will be sticking with classic cars (circa 2000 :) for the foreseeable future.

BluePen8 5y ago
Unless you go through the bother of paying cash every time, it's probably pretty safe to assume VISA is selling the same data. Most gas stations are owned by large chains, I assume they're doing it too. Some stores I visit literally pull up my email for e-receipt from my credit card alone. There's also tracking systems (often used in malls) that use our phone's Bluetooth and Wifi signature to track us as we go store to store. Some use facial recognition as well. There was a lawsuit here in Canada because police cars are equipped with license plate scanners which run 24/7, and retain all the data. Wouldn't even be a lawsuit if it was a private entity. Our cell phone carriers also sell this data. Anonymized sure, but there's enough data points to figure out who is who, especially if paired with another data source. There's also companies that sell a constant feed of satellite imaging. Hedge funds buy it so they can track cars in an out of oil refiners, to better estimate production figures, or setbacks if they see a bunch of emergency response vehicles. I also have an appreciation for my older non-connected vehicles, but let's be real, the ship has sailed on being tracked everywhere we go. I may not like it, but I accept I'm always being tracked a dozen different ways no matter what I do. I'm just glad I'm not anyone important or a political dissident, this would not be a good era for that.
- digisign 5y ago
  True, everyone is trying. I do use cash and other mitigations. My point is that whenever possible, I choose when to share data, when it benefits me. Not the other way around.
teachrdan 5y ago
I sympathize with your comment. But doesn't this apply to ALL new vehicles? Can you help me understand how it's specific to electric vehicles?
- digisign 5y ago
  It's been worse with them because manufacturers decided early that electric cars would be wired with hundreds of sensors and connected to the internet to deliver them to the manufacturer and who-knows who else. Next, charging standards and stations decided that tracking your whereabouts was valuable as well. So when you plug in your car is identified, and matched with your financial and mobile phone details. All this was sold as under the guise of convenience because range anxiety was and is real. Less of a problem now with extended range e-vehicles, but they are not winding down the collection of valuable data of course. And yes, lots of this has spilled over into new gas vehicles, with the exception of the refueling angle. In comparison my current car is completely anonymous when I pay by cash.

BluePen8 5y ago

Unless you go through the bother of paying cash every time, it's probably pretty safe to assume VISA is selling the same data. Most gas stations are owned by large chains, I assume they're doing it too. Some stores I visit literally pull up my email for e-receipt from my credit card alone. There's also tracking systems (often used in malls) that use our phone's Bluetooth and Wifi signature to track us as we go store to store. Some use facial recognition as well. There was a lawsuit here in Canada because police cars are equipped with license plate scanners which run 24/7, and retain all the data. Wouldn't even be a lawsuit if it was a private entity. Our cell phone carriers also sell this data. Anonymized sure, but there's enough data points to figure out who is who, especially if paired with another data source. There's also companies that sell a constant feed of satellite imaging. Hedge funds buy it so they can track cars in an out of oil refiners, to better estimate production figures, or setbacks if they see a bunch of emergency response vehicles. I also have an appreciation for my older non-connected vehicles, but let's be real, the ship has sailed on being tracked everywhere we go. I may not like it, but I accept I'm always being tracked a dozen different ways no matter what I do. I'm just glad I'm not anyone important or a political dissident, this would not be a good era for that.

digisign 5y ago
True, everyone is trying. I do use cash and other mitigations. My point is that whenever possible, I choose when to share data, when it benefits me. Not the other way around.

teachrdan 5y ago

I sympathize with your comment. But doesn't this apply to ALL new vehicles? Can you help me understand how it's specific to electric vehicles?

digisign 5y ago
It's been worse with them because manufacturers decided early that electric cars would be wired with hundreds of sensors and connected to the internet to deliver them to the manufacturer and who-knows who else. Next, charging standards and stations decided that tracking your whereabouts was valuable as well. So when you plug in your car is identified, and matched with your financial and mobile phone details. All this was sold as under the guise of convenience because range anxiety was and is real. Less of a problem now with extended range e-vehicles, but they are not winding down the collection of valuable data of course. And yes, lots of this has spilled over into new gas vehicles, with the exception of the refueling angle. In comparison my current car is completely anonymous when I pay by cash.