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I am not sure that you can change a culture without firing thousands upon thousands of people. At a minimum, you are starting with a bunch of people who defaul

I am not sure that you can change a culture without firing thousands upon thousands of people. At a minimum, you are starting with a bunch of people who default to cheating and lying as a solution to problems. You can put in new barriers to it, but these people are skilled at beating barriers. I say this as a cheater and a liar. It also doesn't help that careers with companies are so short. I have no stake whatsoever in whether a company I work for succeeds long term or not. Just want a nice resume line really.

phkahler 5y ago
>> I say this as a cheater and a liar. I really appreciate the honesty that can be obtained via anonymity. It might be interesting to have honest discussions with "bad" people, but most of them appear either not self-aware, or refuse to be honest about things.
- throwawaysleep 5y ago
  People distinguish heavily between intentional and accidental harm to them, so lacking self awareness is a survival mechanism. I have worked for a company that had a data breach. - If I said in the post mortem that I didn't report the issue as it was more work and I could not be bothered, people would be enraged, but beyond the yelling, I would probably survive in that role. - If I said that I didn't report the issue as I wanted to seem like a hero when I fixed it (real thing my boss did from my days at another company), I would be fired. - If I didn't report the issue due to not knowing the right channel, they criticize my lack of initiative, but it is understandable. - If I did not report the issue due to not knowing about it, I am blameless. You cannot admit to being a bad person without taking a lot of flack.
  - phkahler 5y ago
    That's why people don't admit it to those affected. I suppose strangers chatting at the bar will be more likely to admit wrongdoing, but they are often still worried about judgement. So the only place they can completely admit things is where they're totally anonymous and that's just not the same - nor as interactive and engaging - as real life.
- mlyle 5y ago
  You know... is everything you do bright-line OK? Do you ever exploit gray? Ofttimes, I think the people most willing to self-label this way are those most aware and conflicted by their behavior.
  - cgriswald 5y ago
    Interesting. I've definitely seen such people, but not often. In my experience the people I've seen self-label this way (in a non-anonymous way) do so because they think it reflects well upon them (it's 'cool', demonstrates intelligence or superiority, etc.). It is usually the limit of their self awareness and they are never outwardly conflicted. My inner arm-chair psychologist thinks it stems from varying combinations of insecurity and lack of empathy.
    - vba616 5y ago
      Self-deprecation used to be a social norm.
      - phkahler 5y ago
        >> Self-deprecation used to be a social norm. Seems like more of a British thing. They're also IMHO more willing to take an honest ribbing over screw-ups without getting all pissy. They take it and dish it out.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

phkahler 5y ago

>> I say this as a cheater and a liar. I really appreciate the honesty that can be obtained via anonymity. It might be interesting to have honest discussions with "bad" people, but most of them appear either not self-aware, or refuse to be honest about things.

throwawaysleep 5y ago
People distinguish heavily between intentional and accidental harm to them, so lacking self awareness is a survival mechanism. I have worked for a company that had a data breach. - If I said in the post mortem that I didn't report the issue as it was more work and I could not be bothered, people would be enraged, but beyond the yelling, I would probably survive in that role. - If I said that I didn't report the issue as I wanted to seem like a hero when I fixed it (real thing my boss did from my days at another company), I would be fired. - If I didn't report the issue due to not knowing the right channel, they criticize my lack of initiative, but it is understandable. - If I did not report the issue due to not knowing about it, I am blameless. You cannot admit to being a bad person without taking a lot of flack.
- phkahler 5y ago
  That's why people don't admit it to those affected. I suppose strangers chatting at the bar will be more likely to admit wrongdoing, but they are often still worried about judgement. So the only place they can completely admit things is where they're totally anonymous and that's just not the same - nor as interactive and engaging - as real life.
mlyle 5y ago
You know... is everything you do bright-line OK? Do you ever exploit gray? Ofttimes, I think the people most willing to self-label this way are those most aware and conflicted by their behavior.
- cgriswald 5y ago
  Interesting. I've definitely seen such people, but not often. In my experience the people I've seen self-label this way (in a non-anonymous way) do so because they think it reflects well upon them (it's 'cool', demonstrates intelligence or superiority, etc.). It is usually the limit of their self awareness and they are never outwardly conflicted. My inner arm-chair psychologist thinks it stems from varying combinations of insecurity and lack of empathy.
  - vba616 5y ago
    Self-deprecation used to be a social norm.
    - phkahler 5y ago
      >> Self-deprecation used to be a social norm. Seems like more of a British thing. They're also IMHO more willing to take an honest ribbing over screw-ups without getting all pissy. They take it and dish it out.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]