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Eventually all fiat currencies will be worth less than 1 sat. Today there are 4 countries that fit this. They should ditch their garbage money and use BTC. BTC

Eventually all fiat currencies will be worth less than 1 sat. Today there are 4 countries that fit this. They should ditch their garbage money and use BTC. BTC has 100x left in it, easily. Probably a lot more.

mythrwy 5y ago
BTC at 3 million? 3 million x 21 million = (probably more money then is in circulation worldwide?) I guess anything is possible but it seems highly improbable to me. (edit) Just for fun I checked with quick and dirty math/2 second Google lookups. Say BTC does 100X and attains 3 million. 3million/BTC x 21 million BTC = six hundred thirty trillion! Right now there is around 40 trillion worldwide in the form of "money". So they are going to have to print a lot more money and BTC is going to have to represent all of it near as I can tell for 100X to happen.
- lowkey 5y ago
  - BTC at 10x is the size of the gold market - The market for negative real interest bearing bonds is over $200 Trillion or 200x Bitcoin’s current market cap. Why would anyone store their savings in negative yielding debt? - The total addressable market for BTC is much larger than most expect, though it will take time for the gains to be realized.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Bitcoin will hover between 10-100 million USD, yes.
  - mythrwy 5y ago
    I'm curious in this scenario (total collapse of USD with no .gov structured replacement) how you envision the lights being on and the internet up and running? BTC I guess?
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Who said anything about the lights not being on. You will be paying $100/kwH for your electricity in your $2M/year job.
      - mythrwy 5y ago
        Ah ok that makes more sense. In other words, what BTC will "buy" in terms of goods and services is more or less the same it buys now (maybe more is predicted?). Just the dollar will drop dramatically in value. This might happen sure. Couple of points (just my opinions). If the dollar declines that precipitously in value (in our lifetime), seems it might get slated for replacement. Particularly given what we now know digital currencies can do. Will governments throw in the towel on control of currencies? Seems unlikely, willingly, but maybe they won't have a choice. Would some kind of international monetary standard, agreed to by treaties, replace sovereign currencies with a digital currency? What kind of problems might this solve? (or claim to solve anyway). I don't know. Just don't see nation states giving up control quite yet. I suspect BTC has it's uses for national interests or seems it would have been stomped to death some time ago. If that's even possible, idk. If the dollar declines that precipitously, that rapidly, it seems like significant social upheaval would accompany the decline. Back to my point about the lights being on and networks up. Were I to chose a store of value in this scenario it would be essential physical goods, water and land. Seems you could pick up a lot of baubles with that during the tough times and have wealth when things smooth out. BTC depends on a number of underlying assumptions about social order, at least to the level of maintaining utilities and production lines so there is something to spend it on.
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        I suspect the only way to prevent the collapse of all fiat currencies will be nations holding BTC, and probably other fixed issuance coins used for shorter term trade. There will be a pegged redemption rate, for fiat currencies to the Bitcoin. Because states can keep printing more fiat, there will be some shenanigans with fake Bitcoin. Make sure you always take custody because the banks will try to inflate it! I believe this because it is the only honest money we have. It was invented to keep us honest.
  - aantix 5y ago
    Why not Eth? Seems like it has more utility with the smart contracts.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Nah. Eth sucks actually. Eip1559 is a totally broken model. I get the impression the devs are completely clueless.
- naveen99 5y ago
  63 trillion which is probably around 10-15% of global wealth right now. Plenty of people are already keeping 15% of their portfolio in bitcoin.
fennecfoxen 5y ago
> Eventually all fiat currencies will be worth less than 1 sat. The idea that this specifically matters surely arises from the same logic that thinks certain companies are worth more or more performant because their per-share price is higher.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  You are missing what is going on. It has nothing to do with this. The average life of a fiat currency is 27 years. Your confusion is the share price is denominated in fiat, which is decreasing.
  - Volundr 5y ago
    What is BTC if not a fiat currency?
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      There is a lot of debate about it you would consider BTC a fiat currency. NYFed considers it so. Many Bitcoiners do not agree, rather that term is used for central bank currencies. It comes down to your definition of fiat currencies. From context, I was referring to central bank issued currencies aka fiat currencies. It has to be issued by a State. As opposed to cryptocurrencies that are issued by either mining, or genesis block issuance.
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    ahem i don't know if the crypto and meme-stock worlds realize this, but... out here in the real world we have tools to correct for that; you can compute things like a "real rate of return" on your holdings and see it come up positive, because... well, I know this will seem fantastical to crypto-land especially, but imagine having an asset that actually does something useful while you own it, making income, instead of just existing for speculation!!! it's much better than loaning it out through dodgy exchanges for the purposes of speculation. we actually have nice things like this in the real world, and when we go through routine turbulence (like the last month) our losses are more like 10% of holdings, instead of, like, 50%.

mythrwy 5y ago

BTC at 3 million? 3 million x 21 million = (probably more money then is in circulation worldwide?) I guess anything is possible but it seems highly improbable to me. (edit) Just for fun I checked with quick and dirty math/2 second Google lookups. Say BTC does 100X and attains 3 million. 3million/BTC x 21 million BTC = six hundred thirty trillion! Right now there is around 40 trillion worldwide in the form of "money". So they are going to have to print a lot more money and BTC is going to have to represent all of it near as I can tell for 100X to happen.

lowkey 5y ago
- BTC at 10x is the size of the gold market - The market for negative real interest bearing bonds is over $200 Trillion or 200x Bitcoin’s current market cap. Why would anyone store their savings in negative yielding debt? - The total addressable market for BTC is much larger than most expect, though it will take time for the gains to be realized.
randomhodler84 5y ago
Bitcoin will hover between 10-100 million USD, yes.
- mythrwy 5y ago
  I'm curious in this scenario (total collapse of USD with no .gov structured replacement) how you envision the lights being on and the internet up and running? BTC I guess?
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    Who said anything about the lights not being on. You will be paying $100/kwH for your electricity in your $2M/year job.
    - mythrwy 5y ago
      Ah ok that makes more sense. In other words, what BTC will "buy" in terms of goods and services is more or less the same it buys now (maybe more is predicted?). Just the dollar will drop dramatically in value. This might happen sure. Couple of points (just my opinions). If the dollar declines that precipitously in value (in our lifetime), seems it might get slated for replacement. Particularly given what we now know digital currencies can do. Will governments throw in the towel on control of currencies? Seems unlikely, willingly, but maybe they won't have a choice. Would some kind of international monetary standard, agreed to by treaties, replace sovereign currencies with a digital currency? What kind of problems might this solve? (or claim to solve anyway). I don't know. Just don't see nation states giving up control quite yet. I suspect BTC has it's uses for national interests or seems it would have been stomped to death some time ago. If that's even possible, idk. If the dollar declines that precipitously, that rapidly, it seems like significant social upheaval would accompany the decline. Back to my point about the lights being on and networks up. Were I to chose a store of value in this scenario it would be essential physical goods, water and land. Seems you could pick up a lot of baubles with that during the tough times and have wealth when things smooth out. BTC depends on a number of underlying assumptions about social order, at least to the level of maintaining utilities and production lines so there is something to spend it on.
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        I suspect the only way to prevent the collapse of all fiat currencies will be nations holding BTC, and probably other fixed issuance coins used for shorter term trade. There will be a pegged redemption rate, for fiat currencies to the Bitcoin. Because states can keep printing more fiat, there will be some shenanigans with fake Bitcoin. Make sure you always take custody because the banks will try to inflate it! I believe this because it is the only honest money we have. It was invented to keep us honest.
- aantix 5y ago
  Why not Eth? Seems like it has more utility with the smart contracts.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    Nah. Eth sucks actually. Eip1559 is a totally broken model. I get the impression the devs are completely clueless.
naveen99 5y ago
63 trillion which is probably around 10-15% of global wealth right now. Plenty of people are already keeping 15% of their portfolio in bitcoin.

fennecfoxen 5y ago

> Eventually all fiat currencies will be worth less than 1 sat. The idea that this specifically matters surely arises from the same logic that thinks certain companies are worth more or more performant because their per-share price is higher.

randomhodler84 5y ago
You are missing what is going on. It has nothing to do with this. The average life of a fiat currency is 27 years. Your confusion is the share price is denominated in fiat, which is decreasing.
- Volundr 5y ago
  What is BTC if not a fiat currency?
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    There is a lot of debate about it you would consider BTC a fiat currency. NYFed considers it so. Many Bitcoiners do not agree, rather that term is used for central bank currencies. It comes down to your definition of fiat currencies. From context, I was referring to central bank issued currencies aka fiat currencies. It has to be issued by a State. As opposed to cryptocurrencies that are issued by either mining, or genesis block issuance.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  ahem i don't know if the crypto and meme-stock worlds realize this, but... out here in the real world we have tools to correct for that; you can compute things like a "real rate of return" on your holdings and see it come up positive, because... well, I know this will seem fantastical to crypto-land especially, but imagine having an asset that actually does something useful while you own it, making income, instead of just existing for speculation!!! it's much better than loaning it out through dodgy exchanges for the purposes of speculation. we actually have nice things like this in the real world, and when we go through routine turbulence (like the last month) our losses are more like 10% of holdings, instead of, like, 50%.