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> It's always bewildering that someone defending Biden always has to bring up Trump. Hey, I'm not from US so I can allow myself to do unthinkable thing by your

> It's always bewildering that someone defending Biden always has to bring up Trump. Hey, I'm not from US so I can allow myself to do unthinkable thing by your standards - I dislike both of them! With this, I don't think we need to steer the conversation into Trump vs Biden. However, I do think that some of Trump's comments regarding NATO were quite chilling for Eastern European NATO members. > could be next...what? Do you recall what happened in 2008 with Georgia? This is literally straight from Russia's playbook. They stationed war games at Georgia's borders, tensions heightened, shots were fired, Russia claimed they were fired on first. Now Russia occupies parts of Georgia. This is exactly what wargames at their borders threatens. It's disgusting and absolutely should be universally reprimanded to post up warships to do war games outside of high political tension areas. You seem to have very unorthodox view of the events. This is first time I hear that it was actually NATO troops who fired at Russians while being at Georgian territory under pretext of wargames, if that is what you are saying. To save everyone the click, here is relevant excerpt from Wikipedia (which might or might not come from biased sources, I'm not from Georgia to claim either): The Republic of Georgia declared its independence in early 1991 as the Soviet Union began to fall apart. Amidst this backdrop, a war between Georgia and separatists left parts of the former South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast under the de facto control of Russian-backed but internationally unrecognised separatists. Following the war, a joint peacekeeping force of Georgian, Russian, and Ossetian troops was stationed in the territory. A similar stalemate developed in the region of Abkhazia, where Abkhaz separatists had waged war in 1992–1993. Following the election of Vladimir Putin in Russia in 2000 and a pro-Western change of power in Georgia in 2003, relations between Russia and Georgia began to deteriorate, reaching a full diplomatic crisis by April 2008. On 1 August 2008, South Ossetian separatists started shelling Georgian villages, with a sporadic response from Georgian peacekeepers in the area.[32][33][34][35][36] > Incorrect he said that sending troops to act unilaterally against Russia was not on the table. If you actually listen to the press conference you're referencing then you'd realize this was not a promise to never send troops - quite the opposite. So you concede that Biden never actually said he will send any troops to Ukraine? > Source for Biden repeatedly saying Russia will pay a price for Ukraine invasion? He repeatedly said the price will be economical (joint sanction package together with EU).

toolz 5y ago
> I dislike both of them! > With this, I don't think we need to steer the conversation into Trump vs Biden Whole-heartedly agree on both counts. > You seem to have very unorthodox view of the events. Google "russia says georgia shot first" and you'll get hundreds of millions of hits with articles claiming both ways. If you think this is an unorthodox view I'm afraid you just didn't follow the news of this story at all. > So you concede that Biden never actually said he will send any troops to Ukraine? No! He made it quite clear that if NATO decides to defend Ukraine we have a moral and legal obligation to do so as well. It's in the very same interview. > ...in the cards right now. So obviously in the very same interview he isn't taking it off the table - it's just not what he will be doing right now > The United States is discussing the deployment of American military forces to Eastern Europe with its NATO allies, a senior administration official said Monday, as President Joe Biden weighs options for responding to Russian threats against Ukraine. This is from an article posted 45 minutes ago from NBC News. Obviously Biden has not taken sending troops off the table.
- caskstrength 5y ago
  > Google "russia says georgia shot first" and you'll get hundreds of millions of hits with articles claiming both ways. If you think this is an unorthodox view I'm afraid you just didn't follow the news of this story at all. I have no doubt about that! You can probably even find several (thousands) claiming disguised Ukrainian nazis had also participated! However, I was responding to you claim that NATO forces that were there for wargames are somehow to blame, which is indeed unorthodox. > No! He made it quite clear that if NATO decides to defend Ukraine we have a moral and legal obligation to do so as well. It's in the very same interview. I can't come up with any realistic scenario where NATO decides anything that Biden doesn't agree with. Obviously he can't just say "Hey, we don't really care about Eastern Europe and Russia because we would like to concentrate on competition with China for foreseeable future, but at the same time we can't afford to look weak and unprepared again after Afghanistan disaster, so we are going to act tough and continue to be visibly and deeply concerned about situation in Ukraine!", don't you think? > So obviously in the very same interview he isn't taking it off the table - it's just not what he will be doing right now I mean, when else do you expect him to do it? Stationing US troops in Ukraine after Russia has already occupied it would be quite challenging in my opinion. > This is from an article posted 45 minutes ago from NBC News. Obviously Biden has not taken sending troops off the table. He means further reinforcing deployments of forces in existing NATO member countries in Eastern Europe.

toolz 5y ago

> I dislike both of them! > With this, I don't think we need to steer the conversation into Trump vs Biden Whole-heartedly agree on both counts. > You seem to have very unorthodox view of the events. Google "russia says georgia shot first" and you'll get hundreds of millions of hits with articles claiming both ways. If you think this is an unorthodox view I'm afraid you just didn't follow the news of this story at all. > So you concede that Biden never actually said he will send any troops to Ukraine? No! He made it quite clear that if NATO decides to defend Ukraine we have a moral and legal obligation to do so as well. It's in the very same interview. > ...in the cards right now. So obviously in the very same interview he isn't taking it off the table - it's just not what he will be doing right now > The United States is discussing the deployment of American military forces to Eastern Europe with its NATO allies, a senior administration official said Monday, as President Joe Biden weighs options for responding to Russian threats against Ukraine. This is from an article posted 45 minutes ago from NBC News. Obviously Biden has not taken sending troops off the table.

caskstrength 5y ago
> Google "russia says georgia shot first" and you'll get hundreds of millions of hits with articles claiming both ways. If you think this is an unorthodox view I'm afraid you just didn't follow the news of this story at all. I have no doubt about that! You can probably even find several (thousands) claiming disguised Ukrainian nazis had also participated! However, I was responding to you claim that NATO forces that were there for wargames are somehow to blame, which is indeed unorthodox. > No! He made it quite clear that if NATO decides to defend Ukraine we have a moral and legal obligation to do so as well. It's in the very same interview. I can't come up with any realistic scenario where NATO decides anything that Biden doesn't agree with. Obviously he can't just say "Hey, we don't really care about Eastern Europe and Russia because we would like to concentrate on competition with China for foreseeable future, but at the same time we can't afford to look weak and unprepared again after Afghanistan disaster, so we are going to act tough and continue to be visibly and deeply concerned about situation in Ukraine!", don't you think? > So obviously in the very same interview he isn't taking it off the table - it's just not what he will be doing right now I mean, when else do you expect him to do it? Stationing US troops in Ukraine after Russia has already occupied it would be quite challenging in my opinion. > This is from an article posted 45 minutes ago from NBC News. Obviously Biden has not taken sending troops off the table. He means further reinforcing deployments of forces in existing NATO member countries in Eastern Europe.