4 ms·

That's his point. In a well run society, this would not be the case.

burgerbrain 15y ago
It doesn't matter how fucked up or well run the society is. So long as the justice system is implemented anything like it currently is this will be the case.
- seanalltogether 15y ago
  Oddly enough I was thinking about this very thing today. IN a society, laws are established to invoke precision, but people tend to operate on generalities. For example, speed limits on roads have to be a precise number so that there is an established standard, and in general a cop won't pull you over for doing 37 mph in a 35 zone. However they technically can throw the book at you if they want due to the precision of the law. I don't know how this can be fixed though. At the moment we have to rely on judges to save us from the precision of the law, and we all know that judges can be just as corrupt/resentful/bored/petty as the rest of us.
  - shabble 15y ago
    A good test might be, "if every single person obeyed this law strictly as it is written, would society still operate the way we intend?" (c.f. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Work-to-rule https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Work-to-rule )
  - jackpirate 15y ago
    I think that is not true in general. Consider, for example, the charge of reckless driving. I think (although have no data) that there are probably more laws requiring human judgment than are based on strictly numerical criteria. Off the top of my head, the various degrees of murder, perjury, hate crimes, divorce settlements, and probate court. These all may have very specific criteria to meet them, but there is no way an algorithm could determine innocence or guilt. The only numerical laws I can think of are speed limits and the lines between grand theft / theft.
- Confusion 15y ago
  The justice system in most of Europe is implemented based on the same principles. I wouldn't have any qualms about talking to a German or French cop or national security agent.
  - morsch 15y ago
    You are seriously deluding yourself if you think that the situation is better in Germany or France. Just for instance, evidence found in an illegal search is valid in German courts. This is abused by German cops all the time. And just as in the US, there are almost zero repercussions for this kind of stuff.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    And most people don't have any qualms about talking to American cops. That doesn't mean a thing.
CWuestefeld 15y ago
In a well run society, Who is running society? Half my reason for asking is to be a smart-ass, but the other half is to ponder: Might the problem be that somebody or some group thinks they have (a) the authority, (b) the ability, and (c) the necessary information, to run our lives?
- jackpirate 15y ago
  I agree. I think in general the absolute best societies can only happen when authorities step back and let people do as they think is best. The paradox is that this can also make it possible for the absolute worst societies to form. It depends on the way individual people decide to regulate themselves. Personally, I like the idea of anarchy in an attempt to get the best society possible even if it results in a less perfect one in practice.

It doesn't matter how fucked up or well run the society is. So long as the justice system is implemented anything like it currently is this will be the case.

seanalltogether 15y ago
Oddly enough I was thinking about this very thing today. IN a society, laws are established to invoke precision, but people tend to operate on generalities. For example, speed limits on roads have to be a precise number so that there is an established standard, and in general a cop won't pull you over for doing 37 mph in a 35 zone. However they technically can throw the book at you if they want due to the precision of the law. I don't know how this can be fixed though. At the moment we have to rely on judges to save us from the precision of the law, and we all know that judges can be just as corrupt/resentful/bored/petty as the rest of us.
- shabble 15y ago
  A good test might be, "if every single person obeyed this law strictly as it is written, would society still operate the way we intend?" (c.f. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Work-to-rule https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Work-to-rule )
- jackpirate 15y ago
  I think that is not true in general. Consider, for example, the charge of reckless driving. I think (although have no data) that there are probably more laws requiring human judgment than are based on strictly numerical criteria. Off the top of my head, the various degrees of murder, perjury, hate crimes, divorce settlements, and probate court. These all may have very specific criteria to meet them, but there is no way an algorithm could determine innocence or guilt. The only numerical laws I can think of are speed limits and the lines between grand theft / theft.
Confusion 15y ago
The justice system in most of Europe is implemented based on the same principles. I wouldn't have any qualms about talking to a German or French cop or national security agent.
- morsch 15y ago
  You are seriously deluding yourself if you think that the situation is better in Germany or France. Just for instance, evidence found in an illegal search is valid in German courts. This is abused by German cops all the time. And just as in the US, there are almost zero repercussions for this kind of stuff.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  And most people don't have any qualms about talking to American cops. That doesn't mean a thing.

CWuestefeld 15y ago

In a well run society, Who is running society? Half my reason for asking is to be a smart-ass, but the other half is to ponder: Might the problem be that somebody or some group thinks they have (a) the authority, (b) the ability, and (c) the necessary information, to run our lives?

jackpirate 15y ago
I agree. I think in general the absolute best societies can only happen when authorities step back and let people do as they think is best. The paradox is that this can also make it possible for the absolute worst societies to form. It depends on the way individual people decide to regulate themselves. Personally, I like the idea of anarchy in an attempt to get the best society possible even if it results in a less perfect one in practice.