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I'm not sure I understand what this is showing. What does "Just printed $100,494,053 USDC!" mean? I think this means that someone minted $100M of USDC by depo

I'm not sure I understand what this is showing. What does "Just printed $100,494,053 USDC!" mean? I think this means that someone minted $100M of USDC by depositing USD. The way this normally happens, USD deposits are made to an exchange that has a relationship with Circle, and 1 USDC is minted for each 1 USD on deposit at Circle. Circle then invests those funds in things that are considered financially prudent, making some amount of money, but preserving the full amount of USD required to back the issued USDC. What they really do with the money has historically been the concern by people who don't trust corporate transparency, maybe rightfully so. These "usdcoinprinter" tweets seem to imply that Circle is just making up fictional USDC not backed by anything to prop up the failing crypto market. As in, "we just minted $100M USDC which we'll now use to buy bitcoin, to keep the price of bitcoin high"? I'm not sure I see how that could work without Circle risking their entire business and probably committing some type of fraud.

AnonHP 5y ago
> The way this normally happens, USD deposits are made to an exchange that has a relationship with Circle, and 1 USDC is minted for each 1 USD on deposit at Circle. On the other hand, the most popular (?) stablecoin, Tether (USDT) doesn’t have a one-to-one relationship with USD deposits, and the amount it really has in USD is believed to be very low (I don’t know the numbers, but have read that there haven’t been any audits or published audits).
- anon9001 5y ago
  If this bothers you, you will be shocked to learn how US chartered banks operate.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
  If you "have read", that should be enough for you to mortgage your house, invest all that money in shorting the USDT/USD trading pair and get rich. Sure thing, you have read it.
microtherion 5y ago
What the alert shows is that the coins came into existence. It makes no claim one way or another whether it means that somebody deposited $100M USD or whether there was creation ab nihilo. But I find it generally a bit suspicious that people would choose to buy a stablecoin in order to buy bitcoin instead of buying the bitcoin directly (the explanation given is usually something about evading currency controls/KYC). In a bear market, I find it even more suspicious that there would still be more buyers than sellers of these stablecoins necessitating further creation.
- anon9001 5y ago
  > or whether there was creation ab nihilo. Just to be clear, you're alleging a massive fraud by these people: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/circle-2 https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/circle-2 > But I find it generally a bit suspicious that people would choose to buy a stablecoin in order to buy bitcoin instead of buying the bitcoin directly (the explanation given is usually something about evading currency controls/KYC). I think it has more to do with how DeFi works. You can get huge yields on stablecoins right now (like 40%+), so a lot of people are taking money they would normally put in the stock market and are farming yields with stablecoins instead. I'm sure you'll identify this as a big red flag for scam, but it's actually not. It's the modern equivalent of saying "open a bank account with $100 and get a free toaster", except the numbers are much larger, and they're tokens instead of toasters. > In a bear market, I find it even more suspicious that there would still be more buyers than sellers of these stablecoins necessitating further creation. In a bull market, people sell their stablecoins to buy bitcoin. In a bear market, people sell their bitcoin to buy stablecoins.
  - Yizahi 5y ago
    Yes, massive fraud by these people: https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/07/08/circle-lost-156m-on-poloniex-acquisition-spac-documents-reveal/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/07/08/circle-lost-156m... And that's only what rose to the surface.
  - microtherion 5y ago
    > Just to be clear, you're alleging a massive fraud by these people I'm more familiar with the people behind Tether, where I'm fairly confident they are crooks. I know nothing specifically about USDC except that the issuance patterns look similar. > You can get huge yields on stablecoins right now (like 40%+), so a lot of people are taking money they would normally put in the stock market and are farming yields with stablecoins instead. I'm sure you'll identify this as a big red flag for scam, but it's actually not. If there is an investment sector that promises such a massively higher yield than the rest of the economy, there are really only two possible explanations: (1) a massively higher risk of loss or (2) a scam. I've yet to see an explanation for why there is an enterprise that (a) can generate a 40% return and (b) would take crypto loans at 40% instead of taking fiat loans at much lower rates and buying their own crypto. I've also yet to see an explanation for where those massive DeFi returns are supposed to come from. There doesn't seem to be any underlying economic activity, just finance all the way down. That would make the only revenue source the influx of new investment money, which has not, historically, proven to be a sound business to be in.
Yizahi 5y ago
Circle obviously doesn't have "the full amount of USD required to back the issued USDC" simply because they are afraid to do full independent audit. Is it a "fraud" is an open question because all that crap is unregulated wild west. They be doing it legally.

AnonHP 5y ago

> The way this normally happens, USD deposits are made to an exchange that has a relationship with Circle, and 1 USDC is minted for each 1 USD on deposit at Circle. On the other hand, the most popular (?) stablecoin, Tether (USDT) doesn’t have a one-to-one relationship with USD deposits, and the amount it really has in USD is believed to be very low (I don’t know the numbers, but have read that there haven’t been any audits or published audits).

anon9001 5y ago
If this bothers you, you will be shocked to learn how US chartered banks operate.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
If you "have read", that should be enough for you to mortgage your house, invest all that money in shorting the USDT/USD trading pair and get rich. Sure thing, you have read it.

microtherion 5y ago

What the alert shows is that the coins came into existence. It makes no claim one way or another whether it means that somebody deposited $100M USD or whether there was creation ab nihilo. But I find it generally a bit suspicious that people would choose to buy a stablecoin in order to buy bitcoin instead of buying the bitcoin directly (the explanation given is usually something about evading currency controls/KYC). In a bear market, I find it even more suspicious that there would still be more buyers than sellers of these stablecoins necessitating further creation.

anon9001 5y ago
> or whether there was creation ab nihilo. Just to be clear, you're alleging a massive fraud by these people: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/circle-2 https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/circle-2 > But I find it generally a bit suspicious that people would choose to buy a stablecoin in order to buy bitcoin instead of buying the bitcoin directly (the explanation given is usually something about evading currency controls/KYC). I think it has more to do with how DeFi works. You can get huge yields on stablecoins right now (like 40%+), so a lot of people are taking money they would normally put in the stock market and are farming yields with stablecoins instead. I'm sure you'll identify this as a big red flag for scam, but it's actually not. It's the modern equivalent of saying "open a bank account with $100 and get a free toaster", except the numbers are much larger, and they're tokens instead of toasters. > In a bear market, I find it even more suspicious that there would still be more buyers than sellers of these stablecoins necessitating further creation. In a bull market, people sell their stablecoins to buy bitcoin. In a bear market, people sell their bitcoin to buy stablecoins.
- Yizahi 5y ago
  Yes, massive fraud by these people: https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/07/08/circle-lost-156m-on-poloniex-acquisition-spac-documents-reveal/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/07/08/circle-lost-156m... And that's only what rose to the surface.
- microtherion 5y ago
  > Just to be clear, you're alleging a massive fraud by these people I'm more familiar with the people behind Tether, where I'm fairly confident they are crooks. I know nothing specifically about USDC except that the issuance patterns look similar. > You can get huge yields on stablecoins right now (like 40%+), so a lot of people are taking money they would normally put in the stock market and are farming yields with stablecoins instead. I'm sure you'll identify this as a big red flag for scam, but it's actually not. If there is an investment sector that promises such a massively higher yield than the rest of the economy, there are really only two possible explanations: (1) a massively higher risk of loss or (2) a scam. I've yet to see an explanation for why there is an enterprise that (a) can generate a 40% return and (b) would take crypto loans at 40% instead of taking fiat loans at much lower rates and buying their own crypto. I've also yet to see an explanation for where those massive DeFi returns are supposed to come from. There doesn't seem to be any underlying economic activity, just finance all the way down. That would make the only revenue source the influx of new investment money, which has not, historically, proven to be a sound business to be in.

Yizahi 5y ago

Circle obviously doesn't have "the full amount of USD required to back the issued USDC" simply because they are afraid to do full independent audit. Is it a "fraud" is an open question because all that crap is unregulated wild west. They be doing it legally.