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Why routing alogrithms from different maps don't always give the same route
- 0xTJ 5y agoI used to wonder how companies like TomTom stay in business, given how big products like Google Maps have become. More recently I've seen some media that showed off one of those stand-alone GPS devices (I don't remember which brand, but likely TomTom or Garmin), and I was blown away at how far they've come in capabilities and user interface. (I'm sure it's not just that, looks like they've got a lot of other products like car in-dash navigation.) They also tend to have features that aren't available on Google Maps, like being able to avoid roads that might not be doable with certain vehicles/tows.
- afknewsagency 5y agoYeah, the company has moved further from the consumer market (the devices you talk about), and is now looking much more at B2B markets, providing maps, traffic, routing etc to car companies for their integrated systems. Somewhere on its website it also talks a lot about enterprise so ride hailing services stuff like that.
- adrianN 5y agoRouting is a pretty deep problem. I don't know whether Google actually puts all that much effort into it. For example I prefer to use bbbike.de for cycling routes in my area because it usually provides better routes than Google, even though it's maintained by just one person.
- andreareina 5y agoI've been using Komoot and have been pretty happy with it. Crowd-sourced routes and points of interest, smart-enough routing, free* for most uses. What's really missing for me is being able to set a target distance/time and then add waypoints and it would fill in the rest. * Unless you live somewhere where the "one free region unlock" doesn't work like I do, but I was happy to pay
- gadders 5y agoI use TomTom GPS on my phone and the user interface/map view is so much better than google maps. Waze could be a possibility, but requires a constant mobile data signal.
- szszrk 5y agoWhat google did with maps is amazing, but for me a lot of my friends it's becoming a second choice. Coverage with data in my area is impressive, traffic jams info is amazing, but in general algorithms became way "too smart". With google maps I am being dragged through streets that barely have any asphalt because someone with a tractor went through there. I have a tiny road nearby that is more of a sidewalk for locals, goes tightly between buildings. Google proposes it as a route for a few years now, but only Uber drivers try that - most cars have to fold mirrors to get through. But if someone tries, google treats it as a success and proposes it for everyone. It's painful because all the data about that road and surroundings is there, and when in offline mode it would never let me drive through there. A lot of friends went for smaller map suppliers, I'm using Osmand~ on longer trips, or that new TomTom app "amigo", as these work like maps used to work 10 years ago - prioritize for typical routes, not the crazy ones. If Osmand had a database with speed cams as big and dynamic as the competition I would never look back. But now I just use two maps - one for route, one for speedcams and warnings.
- kortilla 5y agoGoogle maps is exceptionally limited to the point where it’s very easy to beat on mapping features so there is a lot of room for competitors to survive in various niches. - The offline experience is garbage. Default behavior should cache large routes offline immediately when I’m on WiFi. - partial connectivity experience is garbage. Stalled map loads, freezes, etc while driving through a 1x cell service area, even if map was pre-downloaded. - ads for places I don’t care about. - unable to automatically show places I do care about. - searching for exits sucks - searching for rest areas sucks - measuring distances requires interrupting the navigation - no way to view current speed, elevation - filtering for restaurants with drive throughs very frequently ignores the “with drive through” part of the query. - gas prices come and go on gas station display. No way to filter on price. - why in the world can’t we filter based on restroom cleanliness? - trailer towing friendly parking lots? - enter max range between drives, give me fuel stops optimizing for gas cost or cadence of stops. Mapquest did this in the early 2000s FFS and you printed out the result. - overlay recent breadcrumb history on map without it getting blown away any time navigation is interrupted. - search map without interrupting navigation in a way that doesn’t assume something should be added as a waypoint. (Sometimes people use phones for more than one thing at once on a 12 hour road trip.) The list goes on and on. There are like 4 use-cases that work with google maps and they are all for basic users and nothing else.
- tda 5y agoAnd still, even though I pay for the TomTom app on my phone I have switched back to using google maps as default: It loads way quicker, and I only have to type a few letters and it suggests what I meant (even if i made a few typo's). Search is almost instant. Traffic information is good enough. And I can quickly load a satellite picture if the destination is unknown and it is e.g. unclear which side of the lot the entrance is on. TomTom has better traffic information, way better guidance on complex roads (google maps will tell me to take the exit, and it small font it says 2400m, which is the next exit). It has better traffic cam warnings, shows max speed more reliably etc. But also it is slow and clumsy to search for a destination, especially if you do not have the exact address (like a shop by name). As I have practically unlimited data and good coverage everywhere I go, offline maps are more of a drag than a plus. Just saw amigo mentioned, will check that out now
- Ekaros 5y agoI personally prefer having the navigator stuck in my cars CD player permanently. No need to pull phone out and try to connect it or mount it each time. Just turn on the car and navigator starts.
- dikei 5y agoTomtom is selling data to businesses that require raw map data to build their own apps like ride haling service, delivery service, etc..
- CorrectHorseBat 5y agoI'm surprised how bad Google Maps still is at things like this. No I don't want to take the theoretically slightly shorter road through several small neighborhood roads, let me simply follow the main road. Taking intersections into account it's often not even really faster in practice.
- errcorrectcode 5y agoI stopped using Google Maps a while ago because it gave impossible directions too often. Use Waze mostly now.
- dfxm12 5y agoI'm getting a different experience. Google seems to have been sending me on a slightly longer route to avoid lefts where there are no stop signs for incoming traffic/traffic lights.
- onpensionsterm 5y agoIt's astounding how bad satnav apps are in general. First of all, google maintains a monopoly on apps that work with Android Auto. Using either of them, you'll inevitably come along a route it's guiding you down which is impassible for some reason (roadworks, too narrow, etc) That's not really a problem in itself, it can't be omniscient. The problem is that there's no way of dealing with it. You turn off, to take the only route available... and the apps reroute you to the same road you can't take. You then have to manually navigate until it gets the hint and routes you down a passable road. Maps is also heavily dependent on a stable internet connection, strobing and not letting you start a journey until it's connected. Caching your local map is a manual step you have to do repeatedly. If you stop for fuel & disconnect your phone while you go to pay (as the station might recommend) then you might find it has discarded your journey by the time you get back with no path to re-joining it. Fine if you're going to a single destination and have a good internet connection. Not fine if it's multiple points or - as tends to happen in the middle of nowhere - you can't connect to the internet. Multiple points are a problem in themselves though. The apps support destination-based routing but are completely foreign to the concept of journey-based routing. In 2022, if you want to drive a scenic route along a given road, your best bet is to take a notepad and jot down the path yourself. And of course the voice assistants are broken. Garbage. It's absurd we convinced ourselves they stopped being awful.
- ajuc 5y agoI'm using OsmAnd for cycling and walking and it works much better than google maps. It uses OpenStreetMaps + some other sources, and takes elevation into account when in cycling mode which is a big thing. But the route recording and prediction of time could still be a lot better. EDIT: actually I've never checked but it's open source - so I might fix my pet peeves (cutting corners in route recording for example).
- dottedmag 5y agoI'd love to have knobs "how experienced driver I am" and "how familiar am I with the area" (this one can even be automatic, given the amount of data map app makers collect!) for the map apps. If I'm in an unfamiliar area, I really don't want to theoretically save a few seconds by taking a shortcut via little maze of twisty passages, all different. Just give me a straightforward route using a highway, please. (edit: typos)
- geocar 5y agoI think this may already exist? My car's built-in navigation presents me with the most straightforward route by default, and shows me options when they approach. If I take one of those options, it has a personalisation setting that will prefer that option the next time.
- dottedmag 5y agoNice. What's the navigation system? In-house, or do they use some external service?
- geocar 5y agoAudi's MMI. It's has Google Earth/Maps and TomTom logos in areas of the interface, but the interface feels quite tightly integrated with the car's non-media features so I presume it's a combination of own and lease. It looks like this: https://oldeststars.com/images/cd0008d03482460438c9ac135b372223.jpg https://oldeststars.com/images/cd0008d03482460438c9ac135b372... (not my picture)
- ajuc 5y agoThis, but for biking and without a knob. Make an econometric model of my previous recorded routes with explaining variables: elevation, distance driven already, time driven already, time of day, temperature, road quality, wind direction, rain and explained variable: speed for the next kilometer. Predict my speed on potential routes based on that. Calculate routes taking these predictions into account.
- errcorrectcode 5y agoIgnoring optimization goals such as time, cost, distance, road type, and safety: It's not economical to solve the TSP perfectly for real-world problems, so heuristic algorithms are used to deliver good-but-not-perfect solutions(s).[0] 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem
- karussell 5y agoThe article is about solving a A-to-B routing problem, for which you would use something like a Dijkstra algorithm, which is not a heuristic (in its standard settings) and has nothing to do with solving a TSP.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- dcustodio 5y agoI tend to follow Google Maps' advice only when there are no signals or directions as it most of the times sends me through the twisty local/secondary roads. It also considers that all roads are to be done at maximum allowed speed. It really makes me wonder if with all the navigation data from real users they couldn't already done something better than this.
- DennisL123 5y agoAh, well. The title of the post is click-baity. This is less about algorithms, but about data interpretation. The article does mention it, but nowadays everything is an algorithm, it seems.
- kwhitefoot 5y agoThe thing that annoys me about most routing solutions is that they do not allow me to choose between fastest and most economical routes and they don't allow me to disallow classes of road. For instance Tesla's in car routing is pretty good for getting somewhere quickly so long as all the roads alog the way are of good quality. But if there is a single lane country road that cuts a few minutes off a journey it will quite happily send me down it regardless of how suitable it is for a larger than average car with only 13 cm of ground clearance (Model S). I can tell it not to use motorways (perhaps because I want a scenic route?) and ferries (because they are expensive) but I can't tell it to avoid unmetalled roads. Most of the others that I have tried aren't much better.
- srmarm 5y agoI believe google maps now automatically factors in carbon footprint when suggesting routes now [0] Time will always be a nice easy to quantify way of comparing routes but as someone who generally doesn't have to get places quickly I'll usually prioritise a more pleasant journey over the shortest one - so many (personal) ways to define that and not so easy to quantify! Personally I've had some great drives where google maps has a 'x mins longer' route show up that I can see goes down some twisty country road vs the boring main road. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/06/google-maps-to-show-the-lowest-carbon-route-for-car-journeys https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/06/google-ma...
- santialbo 5y agoThis December I used Google maps for a ~2hour car drive. The selected route sent me through mountain pass with lots of curves. Being below -10 degrees I didn't think it was the best alternative so I decided to look at the map myself. There was an alternative that used mostly highways and decent roads that only took 10 more minutes. I still don't understand why the curvy road was the default option.
- nuccy 5y agoMaybe Google Maps just didn't have enough data about that road or there was a jam on the highway. There are a lot of factors to consider and knobs to tune. In old days navigating software was just looking for a shortest possible way, which given that only main roads were known, was quite a reasonable algorithm. Nowadays all the main players have not just highways and city streets, but also trails and unpaved roads, traffic information, road danger (bad pavement, potholes), et al. There are quite funny accidents because of all these, e.g. I remember reading about Google Maps sending people via a muddy road where most of the cars stucked [1] 1. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/26/us/google-maps-detour-colorado-trnd/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/26/us/google-maps-detour-col...
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago>I still don't understand why the curvy road was the default option. Because when the locals punch in an address across the mountains and it says highway they ignore it and take the shortcut so the ML learns the shortcut but not the "except in blizzard conditions" exception.
- gwbas1c 5y agoI remember when I finally realized that my first GPS wasn't very good. At the time, I made a 2-ish hour trip in the evening. I was also still in the habit of bringing printed directions with me. My GPS took me 5 miles off of a major interstate and then tried to have me drive 20 miles on an unpaved road. I turned around and followed the interstate. The GPS tried to get me to take every exit. When I took the exit from the printed directions, it was only a few minutes to my destination. (For those of you familiar with the Bay Area,) this GPS had me exit El Camino ave onto University Ave in front of Stanford, and then immediately get back onto El Camino. It didn't lead me through the underpass. (I think I got off because I thought the destination was near University Ave.)
- rjmunro 5y agoIs there an error in the title? Different maps -> different routes is not interesting. Same map -> different routes might be interesting. The actual article is titled "How routing algorithms prioritize safety over speed in rural Finland"
- isoblvck 5y agoheadline. different algorithms give different results.