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Ukraine is not part of NATO amd no NATO country is under attack or has asked for assistance, quite the opposite actually. EU countries won't even be pulling the

Ukraine is not part of NATO amd no NATO country is under attack or has asked for assistance, quite the opposite actually. EU countries won't even be pulling their diplomats from Ukraine as talls continue.

tpm 5y ago
Certainly war in a neighboring country is a cause for concern for NATO members. There aren't any meaningfull ongoing talks: the Russians are threatening full invasion of Ukraine and other countries are reacting. That's it really.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  There's no war in any neighboring countries that hasn't been there since 2014 so that doesn't explain or excuse anything. > here aren't any meaningfull ongoing talks Says you. The EU, who are a a part of said talks (unlike you), disagrees at this point.
  - crispypotatoes 5y ago
    [dead]
  - tpm 5y ago
    In what talks with whom is the EU engaging reagarding current buildup of Russian forces near Ukrainian borders (not only in Russia, but also in Belarus)?
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      > “I don’t think we had to dramatise as far as the negotiations are going on — and they are going on.” As far as everything I've seen indicates, they're speaking continuously.[1] [1] https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-says-not-following-us-diplomat-families-withdrawals-from-ukraine/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-says-...
      - tpm 5y ago
        He didn't say anything about ongoing negotiations led by the EU. Could be (and probably is) other parties. I thing this is an important point - the Russians are trying to split the EU. Last year, there were efforts by German and French foreign ministers to talk with the Russia - Lavrov "leaked" their proposals which is not something you do when negotiating. Now the Russians are talking mostly to the US, but also not really talking to anyone, only repeating their tropes. One of the reasons for their ignoring of EU is that Eastern European countries are part of the EU, but they do not want to talk with them, only about them - they think they are our rightful owners and obviously you are not going to discuss with the slave - that would elevate him to your status.
        guerrilla 5y ago
        > He didn't say anything about ongoing negotiations led by the EU. Could be (and probably is) other parties. Seems naive to think the EU is not included. > the Russians are trying to split the EU They already are. A glance at F24 vs. DW will tell you that. With Germany importing half of their gas from Russia (or more now?) and France barely importing any, it's really not surprising. And there will be all kinds of small differences like that in relation to Russia. > Lavrov "leaked" their proposals Link? > Now the Russians are talking mostly to the US, but also not really talking to anyone, only repeating their tropes. That would makes sense, as US leads NATO and that's their concern, but also no they've been talking to Germany and will be with France on Friday. But realistically they're all talking all the time. That's how these things work. Anything else is just fantasy.
        tpm 5y ago
        > Seems naive to think the EU is not included. No it's not, seems naive to think the EU is included, that would be contrary to the longstanding Russian opposition to multilateralism. That goes back to the kicking the Soviets got from joining the OSCE in the 70's. Which was originally their idea, but didn't go so well. > Link? for example here: "In November, the ministry actually published its correspondence with France and Germany on Ukraine — 28 pages of diplomatic documents that were supposed to stay confidential (an echo of the famous Bolshevik move to reveal the secret diplomatic documents of the czarist government in 1917)." https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/01/russia-fsb-power-ukraine/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/01/russia-fs...
    - ivan_gammel 5y ago
      German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbok just returned from Moscow, for example, where they discussed Ukraine among other topics. There’s a lot of talks happening right now on different levels.
      - tpm 5y ago
        German Foreign Minister is not a representative of the EU.
        ivan_gammel 5y ago
        She cannot speak from the whole EU, but she represents one of the EU countries. As I said, there are talks going on on different level. If you want names of EU officials, simply check the schedule and public statements of Josep Borrell for example.
soco 5y ago
Russia has officially asked that NATO forces leave Romania and Bulgaria. Does that look like their interests stop at Ukraine?
- xdennis 5y ago
  Not just them. Russia said NATO should revert to its 97 form, which effectively is the same form it had during the Cold War (except for the German reunification, which is telling).
- throwoutway 5y ago
  Russia is demanding that NATO nations (ie Bulgaria) leave NATO. The alliance itself is being diplomatically attacked by threatening a real ground war
- ivan_gammel 5y ago
  It’s a starting point for negotiation, to ask more than you need. Russia was concerned about NATO expansion to those countries, but was not willing to act on it when it happened. As long as there are arms controls treaties in place, it will not be a serious threat for them.

tpm 5y ago

Certainly war in a neighboring country is a cause for concern for NATO members. There aren't any meaningfull ongoing talks: the Russians are threatening full invasion of Ukraine and other countries are reacting. That's it really.

guerrilla 5y ago
There's no war in any neighboring countries that hasn't been there since 2014 so that doesn't explain or excuse anything. > here aren't any meaningfull ongoing talks Says you. The EU, who are a a part of said talks (unlike you), disagrees at this point.
- crispypotatoes 5y ago
  [dead]
- tpm 5y ago
  In what talks with whom is the EU engaging reagarding current buildup of Russian forces near Ukrainian borders (not only in Russia, but also in Belarus)?
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    > “I don’t think we had to dramatise as far as the negotiations are going on — and they are going on.” As far as everything I've seen indicates, they're speaking continuously.[1] [1] https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-says-not-following-us-diplomat-families-withdrawals-from-ukraine/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-says-...
    - tpm 5y ago
      He didn't say anything about ongoing negotiations led by the EU. Could be (and probably is) other parties. I thing this is an important point - the Russians are trying to split the EU. Last year, there were efforts by German and French foreign ministers to talk with the Russia - Lavrov "leaked" their proposals which is not something you do when negotiating. Now the Russians are talking mostly to the US, but also not really talking to anyone, only repeating their tropes. One of the reasons for their ignoring of EU is that Eastern European countries are part of the EU, but they do not want to talk with them, only about them - they think they are our rightful owners and obviously you are not going to discuss with the slave - that would elevate him to your status.
      - guerrilla 5y ago
        > He didn't say anything about ongoing negotiations led by the EU. Could be (and probably is) other parties. Seems naive to think the EU is not included. > the Russians are trying to split the EU They already are. A glance at F24 vs. DW will tell you that. With Germany importing half of their gas from Russia (or more now?) and France barely importing any, it's really not surprising. And there will be all kinds of small differences like that in relation to Russia. > Lavrov "leaked" their proposals Link? > Now the Russians are talking mostly to the US, but also not really talking to anyone, only repeating their tropes. That would makes sense, as US leads NATO and that's their concern, but also no they've been talking to Germany and will be with France on Friday. But realistically they're all talking all the time. That's how these things work. Anything else is just fantasy.
        tpm 5y ago
        > Seems naive to think the EU is not included. No it's not, seems naive to think the EU is included, that would be contrary to the longstanding Russian opposition to multilateralism. That goes back to the kicking the Soviets got from joining the OSCE in the 70's. Which was originally their idea, but didn't go so well. > Link? for example here: "In November, the ministry actually published its correspondence with France and Germany on Ukraine — 28 pages of diplomatic documents that were supposed to stay confidential (an echo of the famous Bolshevik move to reveal the secret diplomatic documents of the czarist government in 1917)." https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/01/russia-fsb-power-ukraine/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/01/russia-fs...
  - ivan_gammel 5y ago
    German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbok just returned from Moscow, for example, where they discussed Ukraine among other topics. There’s a lot of talks happening right now on different levels.
    - tpm 5y ago
      German Foreign Minister is not a representative of the EU.
      - ivan_gammel 5y ago
        She cannot speak from the whole EU, but she represents one of the EU countries. As I said, there are talks going on on different level. If you want names of EU officials, simply check the schedule and public statements of Josep Borrell for example.

soco 5y ago

Russia has officially asked that NATO forces leave Romania and Bulgaria. Does that look like their interests stop at Ukraine?

xdennis 5y ago
Not just them. Russia said NATO should revert to its 97 form, which effectively is the same form it had during the Cold War (except for the German reunification, which is telling).
throwoutway 5y ago
Russia is demanding that NATO nations (ie Bulgaria) leave NATO. The alliance itself is being diplomatically attacked by threatening a real ground war
ivan_gammel 5y ago
It’s a starting point for negotiation, to ask more than you need. Russia was concerned about NATO expansion to those countries, but was not willing to act on it when it happened. As long as there are arms controls treaties in place, it will not be a serious threat for them.