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If an engineer needs that much time you have a serious technical debt for setup of your software or a inexperienced or inept engineer. The developer or at least

If an engineer needs that much time you have a serious technical debt for setup of your software or a inexperienced or inept engineer. The developer or at least operators need to be able to setup your software for more frequently for testing anyway, if they cannot do that rather quick you got other problems.. I can set up Proxmox VE as hyper visor, some container for each DBs, load balancer in front and some app in about an hour max from scratch, with good testing and some bells and whistles, and here I really do not want to brag or the like, as such operations are not my job to do at all, I only know because I do that occasionally for some tests and for some private infra I just maintain out of interest - so I really want to say, if some operation-dork can do that, the engineer you hired should be able to do it at least as quick. But yes you're right in the general point, upfront setup and frequent maintenance is naturally something you need to price in. I just think that if you have that many different parts with complex coupling to induce such a huge maintenance effort required to keep your product running, the cloud offer may not really be your salvation and just delay the fall while costing all the more.

maccard 5y ago
> If an engineer needs that much time you have a serious technical debt for setup of your software or a inexperienced or inept engineer. Everyone does something for the first time once. Just because someone has not set up a hypervisor before doesn't mean they're inexperienced. > I can set up Proxmox VE as hyper visor, some container for each DBs, load balancer in front and some app in about an hour max from scratch, And I can spin up containers + load balancer on AWS in less than five minutes. That doesn't mean that it's just an easy thing to do. (although, this specific example is). > upfront setup and frequent maintenance is naturally something you need to price in. <...> the cloud offer may not really be your salvation and just delay the fall while costing all the more. Agreed 100% on both counts.
- tester756 5y ago
  >Just because someone has not set up a hypervisor before doesn't mean they're inexperienced. Wait, what? If you never did something, then you're unexperienced, ain't you?
  - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
    You can be an experienced $job without having ever done $one-particular-thing-related-to-job. Experienced != Knows 100% of things.
stickfigure 5y ago
The difference with a PaaS/serverless system is that I don't need to hire you, or have someone on my team learn to be you. I'm sorry, but all that stuff you describe doesn't bring any business value. My customers don't care what hypervisor I'm running, so I don't care either. PaaS means someone else deals with it, forever. The last time I had to employ an ops (or devops) person was 2007.

maccard 5y ago

> If an engineer needs that much time you have a serious technical debt for setup of your software or a inexperienced or inept engineer. Everyone does something for the first time once. Just because someone has not set up a hypervisor before doesn't mean they're inexperienced. > I can set up Proxmox VE as hyper visor, some container for each DBs, load balancer in front and some app in about an hour max from scratch, And I can spin up containers + load balancer on AWS in less than five minutes. That doesn't mean that it's just an easy thing to do. (although, this specific example is). > upfront setup and frequent maintenance is naturally something you need to price in. <...> the cloud offer may not really be your salvation and just delay the fall while costing all the more. Agreed 100% on both counts.

tester756 5y ago
>Just because someone has not set up a hypervisor before doesn't mean they're inexperienced. Wait, what? If you never did something, then you're unexperienced, ain't you?
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  You can be an experienced $job without having ever done $one-particular-thing-related-to-job. Experienced != Knows 100% of things.

stickfigure 5y ago

The difference with a PaaS/serverless system is that I don't need to hire you, or have someone on my team learn to be you. I'm sorry, but all that stuff you describe doesn't bring any business value. My customers don't care what hypervisor I'm running, so I don't care either. PaaS means someone else deals with it, forever. The last time I had to employ an ops (or devops) person was 2007.