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I very much hope it's not a France sponsored coup Western countries sponsoring coups in their former colonial posessions in 2022 will be a great insult to the

I very much hope it's not a France sponsored coup Western countries sponsoring coups in their former colonial posessions in 2022 will be a great insult to the whole idea of West trying to fix the world, and not the other way around.

beebeepka 5y ago
Well, all these coups and civil wars are the price for other people's good lifes. We only have one planet so someone has to pay the price. I know this is not a popular opinion, especially on US sites, but it's the truth. It's incredibly racist to think otherwise. Because what's the alternative? Half the world is made of idiots born in utter poverty because they are idiots and can't get their countries straight?
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  Coups don't help. They make things worse and that's about it. I don't know a proper solution. All I can suggest: donate money to education. Invite foreign children temporarily to US, educate them and send educated ones back in their home country. Do it on scale. Don't allow them to stay in US (because most of them will want to stay, that's harsh thing to say, for sure). Educated smart people will eventually get the power and hopefully they'll build better home country.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Russia has the highest tertiary education rate in the world, aaaand? In reality, both are needed, but, immediately, tanks, military training, and other powerful weapons are of way more use for democracy.
    - filoleg 5y ago
      I assume that when the parent comment said “educated”, they didn’t mean just things like literacy and math, but also educated culturally in terms of western ideals and civic values. As someone who actually grew up in Russia and was fortunate enough to immigrate to the US with my family around high school and has spent over a decade here so far, I can assure you that the civic values and the whole relationship of citizens with the law and the government are wildly different between those two countries. So I am definitely somewhat seeing the point of what the parent comment is proposing. P.S. I ask people replying ahead of time, please do not derail the thread with assessment of western ideals themselves or bringing up a bunch of unsavory moments from western history. That’s obviously not what we are talking about here.
      - goodpoint 5y ago
        > western ideals What is the "west"? And what are such ideals?
    - vbezhenar 5y ago
      Russia is fine.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > Invite foreign children temporarily to US, educate them and send educated ones back in their home country Let me introduce you to https://exchanges.state.gov/non-us/program/future-leaders-exchange https://exchanges.state.gov/non-us/program/future-leaders-ex... All it does is create incentives for people to go back and create meaningless NGOs whose only purpose is to siphon grants and hold press conferences. How do I know? I come from a basically a third-world country where such programs do jack shit: (A very small subset can be seen here: https://ngoexplorer.org/country/mda/show-charities https://ngoexplorer.org/country/mda/show-charities)
- tnecio 5y ago
  False dichotomy. The alternative is that the economy is not a zero-sum game, half the world is unlucky to be born in worse-off countries that are the way they are because of their history and geography, and "getting your country straight" is a difficult and complex task that requires cooperation on massive scale.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  They really aren't. The popular narrative is that the commoners own the responsibility for imperialism "because it helped them" and this assertion tends to be taken without question. The reality is far more complicated. What is true is that imperialism is driven by and for the very rich and powerful ruling class. And what is also true is that the common people have been forced to bear the brunt of these wars and interventions and expansion. The common people of imperialist countries have also been victims of imperialism.
- blfr 5y ago
  That's a weird idea. While steady exploitation could be a price for other people's good lives, coups and civil wars are almost pure loss. This or that weapon merchant can make some money but it's peanuts compared to ordered economic activity.
sofixa 5y ago
> I very much hope it's not a France sponsored coup Is there any indication that could be the case? I don't see what France would get from such a case, and all the reporting so far seems to be that junior military men are complaining about top military brass and insufficient resources to combat jihadists. France is already embroiled in Mali in that same fight, so it could be a continuation of the same policy.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > Is there any indication that could be the case? It's just an automatic assumption when you hear "coup in Africa." France has a very, very long record of staging coups in African countries, in particular upstanding ones. > I don't see what France would get from such a case, I don't see either, but America never got anything out of its coups in South Americas either, only more headaches. Many of them, just because they didn't like the Africans, and just wanted to hurt them out of their sociopatic tendencies, with some geopolitical bullshit as a pretext.
baud147258 5y ago
While I don't think France is sponsoring anything (this time around), I'm finding the idea 'of West trying to fix the world' rather naive; and it's not something that should be just be done by the West.

beebeepka 5y ago

Well, all these coups and civil wars are the price for other people's good lifes. We only have one planet so someone has to pay the price. I know this is not a popular opinion, especially on US sites, but it's the truth. It's incredibly racist to think otherwise. Because what's the alternative? Half the world is made of idiots born in utter poverty because they are idiots and can't get their countries straight?

vbezhenar 5y ago
Coups don't help. They make things worse and that's about it. I don't know a proper solution. All I can suggest: donate money to education. Invite foreign children temporarily to US, educate them and send educated ones back in their home country. Do it on scale. Don't allow them to stay in US (because most of them will want to stay, that's harsh thing to say, for sure). Educated smart people will eventually get the power and hopefully they'll build better home country.
- baybal2 5y ago
  Russia has the highest tertiary education rate in the world, aaaand? In reality, both are needed, but, immediately, tanks, military training, and other powerful weapons are of way more use for democracy.
  - filoleg 5y ago
    I assume that when the parent comment said “educated”, they didn’t mean just things like literacy and math, but also educated culturally in terms of western ideals and civic values. As someone who actually grew up in Russia and was fortunate enough to immigrate to the US with my family around high school and has spent over a decade here so far, I can assure you that the civic values and the whole relationship of citizens with the law and the government are wildly different between those two countries. So I am definitely somewhat seeing the point of what the parent comment is proposing. P.S. I ask people replying ahead of time, please do not derail the thread with assessment of western ideals themselves or bringing up a bunch of unsavory moments from western history. That’s obviously not what we are talking about here.
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      > western ideals What is the "west"? And what are such ideals?
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    Russia is fine.
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > Invite foreign children temporarily to US, educate them and send educated ones back in their home country Let me introduce you to https://exchanges.state.gov/non-us/program/future-leaders-exchange https://exchanges.state.gov/non-us/program/future-leaders-ex... All it does is create incentives for people to go back and create meaningless NGOs whose only purpose is to siphon grants and hold press conferences. How do I know? I come from a basically a third-world country where such programs do jack shit: (A very small subset can be seen here: https://ngoexplorer.org/country/mda/show-charities https://ngoexplorer.org/country/mda/show-charities)
tnecio 5y ago
False dichotomy. The alternative is that the economy is not a zero-sum game, half the world is unlucky to be born in worse-off countries that are the way they are because of their history and geography, and "getting your country straight" is a difficult and complex task that requires cooperation on massive scale.
throwawaylinux 5y ago
They really aren't. The popular narrative is that the commoners own the responsibility for imperialism "because it helped them" and this assertion tends to be taken without question. The reality is far more complicated. What is true is that imperialism is driven by and for the very rich and powerful ruling class. And what is also true is that the common people have been forced to bear the brunt of these wars and interventions and expansion. The common people of imperialist countries have also been victims of imperialism.
blfr 5y ago
That's a weird idea. While steady exploitation could be a price for other people's good lives, coups and civil wars are almost pure loss. This or that weapon merchant can make some money but it's peanuts compared to ordered economic activity.

sofixa 5y ago

> I very much hope it's not a France sponsored coup Is there any indication that could be the case? I don't see what France would get from such a case, and all the reporting so far seems to be that junior military men are complaining about top military brass and insufficient resources to combat jihadists. France is already embroiled in Mali in that same fight, so it could be a continuation of the same policy.

baybal2 5y ago
> Is there any indication that could be the case? It's just an automatic assumption when you hear "coup in Africa." France has a very, very long record of staging coups in African countries, in particular upstanding ones. > I don't see what France would get from such a case, I don't see either, but America never got anything out of its coups in South Americas either, only more headaches. Many of them, just because they didn't like the Africans, and just wanted to hurt them out of their sociopatic tendencies, with some geopolitical bullshit as a pretext.

baud147258 5y ago

While I don't think France is sponsoring anything (this time around), I'm finding the idea 'of West trying to fix the world' rather naive; and it's not something that should be just be done by the West.