6 ms·

Can't John Deere just have customers sign away their right to sue or be party to a class action? They could make that a requirement for new customers or custome

Can't John Deere just have customers sign away their right to sue or be party to a class action? They could make that a requirement for new customers or customers seeking repairs.

bluGill 5y ago
What about after the tractor is sold to someone else? The EPA also doesn't like the idea of people making things not pass emissions.
- rasz 5y ago
  In most states (all?) this happens thru OBD II, so not a real test, with tons of exemptions depending on car weight/engine type/age. This https://www.wep-inc.com/inspection-maintenance-programs/texas/ https://www.wep-inc.com/inspection-maintenance-programs/texa... is hilarious. You arent testing car emissions, you are reading car computer self report. In EU, NZ/AU and probably many more places Tailpipe gas emissions test is routine. There are even mobile units with portable Emissions measurement systems. Meanwhile even California doesnt mandate tailpipe tests :o
  - hiptobecubic 5y ago
    They do for older cars.
    - rasz 5y ago
      Its the other way around. Older/weirder stuff is usually fully exempted.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    I didn't say anything about testing. I've never heard of anyone doing emissions testing on tractors after it leaves the factory. I said that the EPA will get mad if someone changes the emissions. The EPA has already hinted that making it possible for random people to violate emissions by changes the software will be a bad thing. Not sure how this will turn out in court and laws, but it is a factor. When I press people on what parts of their tractors they can't do now it generally comes down to something that would make the tractor not pass emissions if it was tested. Parts and computer test equipment is readily available.
    - rasz 5y ago
      This is precisely my point. Rest of the world tests, they test actual exhaust emissions, and there are regulations and penalties. US on the other hand legislated computer DRM "for engines" because its cheaper/faster, anything beyond is a super special case. My favorite is actual tailpipe test commercial trucks must pass in NY - they test opacity of gas aka "is the smoke visible?" :o and look for physical presence of all mandated emission hardware for that model/year/exemption status. All of that theater instead of using proper exhaust gas analyzers. >Parts and computer test equipment is readily available. Can you download standalone John Deere service software? or did you mean signing up for their paid SAAS package?
jbkiv 5y ago
They can. Up to a point. If you push too much one day you will face a jury composed of normal people. We have experienced that in some states with non compete agreements. It got to the point that you could no longer work anywhere else. Sometimes the company would make you sign documents saying that they owned the IP you were creating AFTER your departure. Don't push too hard because at one point you will that jury of normal people. And they will make their mind very quickly.
ipaddr 5y ago
You shouldn't be able to sign those rights away.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  It's like a corporate sharia law.

Can't John Deere just have customers sign away their right to sue or be party to a class action? They could make that a requirement for new customers or customers seeking repairs.

bluGill 5y ago

What about after the tractor is sold to someone else? The EPA also doesn't like the idea of people making things not pass emissions.

rasz 5y ago
In most states (all?) this happens thru OBD II, so not a real test, with tons of exemptions depending on car weight/engine type/age. This https://www.wep-inc.com/inspection-maintenance-programs/texas/ https://www.wep-inc.com/inspection-maintenance-programs/texa... is hilarious. You arent testing car emissions, you are reading car computer self report. In EU, NZ/AU and probably many more places Tailpipe gas emissions test is routine. There are even mobile units with portable Emissions measurement systems. Meanwhile even California doesnt mandate tailpipe tests :o
- hiptobecubic 5y ago
  They do for older cars.
  - rasz 5y ago
    Its the other way around. Older/weirder stuff is usually fully exempted.
- bluGill 5y ago
  I didn't say anything about testing. I've never heard of anyone doing emissions testing on tractors after it leaves the factory. I said that the EPA will get mad if someone changes the emissions. The EPA has already hinted that making it possible for random people to violate emissions by changes the software will be a bad thing. Not sure how this will turn out in court and laws, but it is a factor. When I press people on what parts of their tractors they can't do now it generally comes down to something that would make the tractor not pass emissions if it was tested. Parts and computer test equipment is readily available.
  - rasz 5y ago
    This is precisely my point. Rest of the world tests, they test actual exhaust emissions, and there are regulations and penalties. US on the other hand legislated computer DRM "for engines" because its cheaper/faster, anything beyond is a super special case. My favorite is actual tailpipe test commercial trucks must pass in NY - they test opacity of gas aka "is the smoke visible?" :o and look for physical presence of all mandated emission hardware for that model/year/exemption status. All of that theater instead of using proper exhaust gas analyzers. >Parts and computer test equipment is readily available. Can you download standalone John Deere service software? or did you mean signing up for their paid SAAS package?

jbkiv 5y ago

They can. Up to a point. If you push too much one day you will face a jury composed of normal people. We have experienced that in some states with non compete agreements. It got to the point that you could no longer work anywhere else. Sometimes the company would make you sign documents saying that they owned the IP you were creating AFTER your departure. Don't push too hard because at one point you will that jury of normal people. And they will make their mind very quickly.

ipaddr 5y ago

You shouldn't be able to sign those rights away.

pessimizer 5y ago
It's like a corporate sharia law.