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This has become a general problem. There seems to be more money in "software services" than in building tractors and motors. John Deere is not unique. All comm
by jbkiv 5y ago
This has become a general problem. There seems to be more money in "software services" than in building tractors and motors.
John Deere is not unique. All common rail engines require a visit from a "certified engineer" who has access to the software. This is terrible in the marine industry where you can't get one in the middle of the ocean and you can't repair yourself either. What do you do? Do you sail to a harbor? You can't unless you have a sailboat. Get a tow to the nearest Volvo/Yanmar dealer? You must be kidding, thousand of miles away?
So yes, that lawsuit makes sense.
As for a class action lawsuit some of the comments in the thread misunderstand how it works:
1. Secure one or two plaintiffs. Two or three is better. Make sure they represent owners well: no conflicts, not paid to sue, good/clean plaintiffs.
2. Find the right location for the lawsuit. Location is very important in the US. Not only the state but the county. This is VERY important. Good plaintiff lawyers know where to sue.
3. Get your judge to certify the class action. "this lawsuit is on behalf of all users of John Deere tractors, etc". This is ALSO very important. John Deere will fight that. They will claim that those two plaintiffs do not represent the class, blabla.
4. Fight in court. Other plaintiffs have nothing to do. If the class action lawsuit wins on behalf of thousands of owners this represents a lot of money. It costs nothing to plaintiffs. Lawyers typically get 30%, sometimes less. If they are too greedy (they all are) the judge may object and cut down the fees.
5. Users can “opt out” of the payment if John Deere loses in court after appeals. Most plaintiffs do not opt out because they can’t afford to fight big corporations.
Unfortunately corporations are not always fair. We have seen many, many cases when poor farmer John just could not pay the exorbitant costs imposed by John Deere. Understand that these people have learned to be self-sufficient. They weld their broken massive tools in the field. They call the mobile repair shop to fix and tune their engines. Now they can't do anything. That massive, expensive John Deer is like a beached whale. Nothing you can do about it.
Hence class action lawsuits in the US. Some of them are abusive (i.e.recent att phone bills, 100M customers collect $1, lawyers collect $30M), but sometimes there are no other ways (asbestos, workplace injuries, brain damage near chemical waste from mining). Folks outside the US struggle to understand the system.
It is why today you can enjoy Non-Apple store repairs to your phone, non OEM parts for your car or non branded cartridges for your printer.
I wish that such a lawsuit will force John Deere to change its practices, like it forced other companies to do so.
- aaron_m04 5y agoCan't John Deere just have customers sign away their right to sue or be party to a class action? They could make that a requirement for new customers or customers seeking repairs.
- bluGill 5y agoWhat about after the tractor is sold to someone else? The EPA also doesn't like the idea of people making things not pass emissions.
- rasz 5y agoIn most states (all?) this happens thru OBD II, so not a real test, with tons of exemptions depending on car weight/engine type/age. This https://www.wep-inc.com/inspection-maintenance-programs/texas/ https://www.wep-inc.com/inspection-maintenance-programs/texa... is hilarious. You arent testing car emissions, you are reading car computer self report. In EU, NZ/AU and probably many more places Tailpipe gas emissions test is routine. There are even mobile units with portable Emissions measurement systems. Meanwhile even California doesnt mandate tailpipe tests :o
- hiptobecubic 5y agoThey do for older cars.
- rasz 5y agoIts the other way around. Older/weirder stuff is usually fully exempted.
- bluGill 5y agoI didn't say anything about testing. I've never heard of anyone doing emissions testing on tractors after it leaves the factory. I said that the EPA will get mad if someone changes the emissions. The EPA has already hinted that making it possible for random people to violate emissions by changes the software will be a bad thing. Not sure how this will turn out in court and laws, but it is a factor. When I press people on what parts of their tractors they can't do now it generally comes down to something that would make the tractor not pass emissions if it was tested. Parts and computer test equipment is readily available.