5 ms·

My question is what is wrong with the other brand? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGCO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGCO

markdown 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahindra_Tractors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahindra_Tractors FTFY. Seriously though, the point isn't that there are alternatives, but that one should have the right to repair whatever machine they own.
- nimbius 5y ago
  disclosure: im a diesel mechanic by trade and Mahindra's are a real treat!! I absolutely endorse Mahindra but if youre outside TN theyre kinda hard to come by. the tractors are less reliable than more modern western designs but faster and easier to repair by far. new head seals rocker arms valve guide seals and an oil change was 6 hours of labor and i actually started to enjoy it. bolts are over-built for what you need in some cases. the gyrovator has some of the beefiest engine mounts ive come across in a long time (looking at you Western Star) im sure every one comes with a free "you dont want that" from the usual scumbags at the dealer but if you have an engine lift you can service your own Jivo very easily from tip to tail. the only reason our shop saw one was because the owner couldnt safely work on the engine (gyrovator series) as he was 71 years old.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    I had a Kubota and loved it. Easy to work on, parts readily available, affordable and no more electronics than it really needed to have. How do Kubota and Mahindra compare side-by-side?
    - nimbius 5y ago
      kubota parts were faster for us to order since theyre used in construction all over the US and theyre a little more interchangeable, but you make that difference up with mahindra because you can fix more of it in the field to begin with.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Thank you for answering. I lived in a area where there were a lot of small and fairly poor farmers. I also had a machine shop. You can see where this is going: come harvest time tons of stuff that had been sitting for a year suddenly had to work 16 hours per day and predictably quite a bit of it would break in the field, usually simple stuff, bearings, shafts, welds. So once word got around that I was an ok welder with a machine shop every year a couple of farmers would find their way to my door with broken balers, older harvesters and s on. Fixing those would keep us in produce and meat for months. But I never ran into a Mahindra, though they were in use.
        stickfigure 5y ago
        Tightening emissions rules are having an effect on this, at least here in the US. My small late-model Kubota has a diesel particulate filter and a fair bit of electronics to manage it. I've been told that if you don't follow the emissions instructions, the system will shut down and a Kubota official will have to come out to "unlock" your tractor.
        vvanders 5y ago
        Having owned both CUT without any emissions control(1981) and a Kubota w/ DPF, I'll take the DPF every day. It's quieter, cleaner and the emissions controls are even more straightforward than other modern diesels. If you have a full DPF, you just regen it for 10-15(usually while you're working) and you're good to go.
    - LgWoodenBadger 5y ago
      Aftermarket support. JD and Kubota are almost guaranteed to have attachments, enhancements, etc made specifically for them. My Massey Ferguson has some offerings, but not nearly as many as those two. It’s similar for the other also-rans: New Holland, Kioti, Mahindra, RK, Bronson, and so on.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    less reliable than more modern western designs but faster and easier to repair by far This sounds similar to the contrast between older and newer cars too; the older ones were designed to last with periodic scheduled maintenance, whereas newer ones are designed to have no maintenance for their "design life", after which it's difficult to repair.
CivBase 5y ago
You assume the customer has the information needed to make that decision before the purchase. In reality, most people don't have a reliable way to compare the repairability of products/brands before making a purchase. Even if they did, if the majority of the market doesn't valie repair, that can easily ruin it for those who do. It especially punishes those who are behind economically and can't afford replacements or "authorized" repair options (assuming they are even available).
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Farmers are equipment nerds. It comes with the territory. They aren't an ignorant consumer market, which is why we're seeing a big push for right to repair from that industry - hopefully they carry the torch for ignorant consumers in computers and cars and other markets.
  - CivBase 5y ago
    Some are. Some aren't. I know farmers on both sides. You can't paint massive demographics with broad strokes like that.
  - LgWoodenBadger 5y ago
    From what I’ve seen, maintenance is an afterthought, and even then only until something breaks. That’s where the right to repair comes in. Had they done the preventative maintenance, it likely wouldn’t have broken, alas…
noselasd 5y ago
JD may effectively have a monopoly where the farmer lives. You're quite dependent on getting parts, help , knowledge, service, etc. locally with equipment like this.
cplusplusfellow 5y ago
Some of this equipment weighs 150,000 pounds. The dealership lets you demo the machine for a certain number of hours and then you get used to it. It’s hard for an area to support more than a few dealerships because this equipment isn’t rotated out very often (10-20 years?). It’s hard to unseat an entrenched player, but loss of right to repair is a big step towards an upstart moving in.
- asdff 5y ago
  They should do what lab supply companies do who have similar constraints (hard to support dealerships for niche microscopes and such, expensive to ship and time consuming to set up sensitive microscopes and such): Salespeople. Have them make the rounds to the customers like these farmers. If there is interest among the farmers in a given area, you could then organize a demo day, email your clients about it, and interested parties would make time for it, especially if you are offering them a potential out from John Deere's yoke.
  - foepys 5y ago
    It's not only about demoing. As a farmer you have very few days to get your seeds out and very few days to get your harvest in. If you machine breaks down for too long, you might lose a lot of money. So you only get machines from somebody with mechanics and a full inventory of parts nearby. You cannot wait a day for something to arrive when you are on the field, you need to get it fixed NOW.

markdown 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahindra_Tractors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahindra_Tractors FTFY. Seriously though, the point isn't that there are alternatives, but that one should have the right to repair whatever machine they own.

nimbius 5y ago
disclosure: im a diesel mechanic by trade and Mahindra's are a real treat!! I absolutely endorse Mahindra but if youre outside TN theyre kinda hard to come by. the tractors are less reliable than more modern western designs but faster and easier to repair by far. new head seals rocker arms valve guide seals and an oil change was 6 hours of labor and i actually started to enjoy it. bolts are over-built for what you need in some cases. the gyrovator has some of the beefiest engine mounts ive come across in a long time (looking at you Western Star) im sure every one comes with a free "you dont want that" from the usual scumbags at the dealer but if you have an engine lift you can service your own Jivo very easily from tip to tail. the only reason our shop saw one was because the owner couldnt safely work on the engine (gyrovator series) as he was 71 years old.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  I had a Kubota and loved it. Easy to work on, parts readily available, affordable and no more electronics than it really needed to have. How do Kubota and Mahindra compare side-by-side?
  - nimbius 5y ago
    kubota parts were faster for us to order since theyre used in construction all over the US and theyre a little more interchangeable, but you make that difference up with mahindra because you can fix more of it in the field to begin with.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Thank you for answering. I lived in a area where there were a lot of small and fairly poor farmers. I also had a machine shop. You can see where this is going: come harvest time tons of stuff that had been sitting for a year suddenly had to work 16 hours per day and predictably quite a bit of it would break in the field, usually simple stuff, bearings, shafts, welds. So once word got around that I was an ok welder with a machine shop every year a couple of farmers would find their way to my door with broken balers, older harvesters and s on. Fixing those would keep us in produce and meat for months. But I never ran into a Mahindra, though they were in use.
      - stickfigure 5y ago
        Tightening emissions rules are having an effect on this, at least here in the US. My small late-model Kubota has a diesel particulate filter and a fair bit of electronics to manage it. I've been told that if you don't follow the emissions instructions, the system will shut down and a Kubota official will have to come out to "unlock" your tractor.
        vvanders 5y ago
        Having owned both CUT without any emissions control(1981) and a Kubota w/ DPF, I'll take the DPF every day. It's quieter, cleaner and the emissions controls are even more straightforward than other modern diesels. If you have a full DPF, you just regen it for 10-15(usually while you're working) and you're good to go.
  - LgWoodenBadger 5y ago
    Aftermarket support. JD and Kubota are almost guaranteed to have attachments, enhancements, etc made specifically for them. My Massey Ferguson has some offerings, but not nearly as many as those two. It’s similar for the other also-rans: New Holland, Kioti, Mahindra, RK, Bronson, and so on.
- userbinator 5y ago
  less reliable than more modern western designs but faster and easier to repair by far This sounds similar to the contrast between older and newer cars too; the older ones were designed to last with periodic scheduled maintenance, whereas newer ones are designed to have no maintenance for their "design life", after which it's difficult to repair.

CivBase 5y ago

You assume the customer has the information needed to make that decision before the purchase. In reality, most people don't have a reliable way to compare the repairability of products/brands before making a purchase. Even if they did, if the majority of the market doesn't valie repair, that can easily ruin it for those who do. It especially punishes those who are behind economically and can't afford replacements or "authorized" repair options (assuming they are even available).

robbedpeter 5y ago
Farmers are equipment nerds. It comes with the territory. They aren't an ignorant consumer market, which is why we're seeing a big push for right to repair from that industry - hopefully they carry the torch for ignorant consumers in computers and cars and other markets.
- CivBase 5y ago
  Some are. Some aren't. I know farmers on both sides. You can't paint massive demographics with broad strokes like that.
- LgWoodenBadger 5y ago
  From what I’ve seen, maintenance is an afterthought, and even then only until something breaks. That’s where the right to repair comes in. Had they done the preventative maintenance, it likely wouldn’t have broken, alas…

noselasd 5y ago

JD may effectively have a monopoly where the farmer lives. You're quite dependent on getting parts, help , knowledge, service, etc. locally with equipment like this.

cplusplusfellow 5y ago

Some of this equipment weighs 150,000 pounds. The dealership lets you demo the machine for a certain number of hours and then you get used to it. It’s hard for an area to support more than a few dealerships because this equipment isn’t rotated out very often (10-20 years?). It’s hard to unseat an entrenched player, but loss of right to repair is a big step towards an upstart moving in.

asdff 5y ago
They should do what lab supply companies do who have similar constraints (hard to support dealerships for niche microscopes and such, expensive to ship and time consuming to set up sensitive microscopes and such): Salespeople. Have them make the rounds to the customers like these farmers. If there is interest among the farmers in a given area, you could then organize a demo day, email your clients about it, and interested parties would make time for it, especially if you are offering them a potential out from John Deere's yoke.
- foepys 5y ago
  It's not only about demoing. As a farmer you have very few days to get your seeds out and very few days to get your harvest in. If you machine breaks down for too long, you might lose a lot of money. So you only get machines from somebody with mechanics and a full inventory of parts nearby. You cannot wait a day for something to arrive when you are on the field, you need to get it fixed NOW.