4 ms·

What’s toxic is having somebody breaking into your house and not being able to do anything about it except call the police who might or might not show up in the

What’s toxic is having somebody breaking into your house and not being able to do anything about it except call the police who might or might not show up in the next 15 minutes. What’s toxic is when only criminals have guns and you cannot protect yourself with equal force.

xxpor 5y ago
That's exactly my point. For the average person, it's not a net win to have that gun around. The chance you'll be the victim of a random occupied home invasion is VERY VERY small.
- burner556 5y ago
  I agree with you, however: I’m not willing to give up my individual freedom to protect my family for the benefit of the group. If you are, cool. Also, my eyebrows are raised at the idea that protecting your family is toxic in your OG comment. Come again?
  - xxpor 5y ago
    I protect my family by making the world a better place/supporting structural solutions to problems. Not by pretending I'm going to be a hero by shooting someone that just wants stuff. Unfortunately for a lot of folks on the right, they do think that's what'll happen. What will actually happen is something like this: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-toddler-gun-car-shoots-mother-sibling-82105585 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-toddler-gun-car-sh... In the worst cases, people's gun collections become a significant contributor to their ego. See also: lifted trucks.
    - burner556 5y ago
      Thanks for your input. How do you know somebody crashing through your window just wants stuff? What if they can kidnap your wife / hold somebody hostage to get even more stuff. Is that a risk you’re willing to take? Agreed with your point on ego, it is sad. I would just add that responsible gun owners keep their guns locked up at all times especially with children in the house. Can’t say everybody is responsible but the benefit is worth the risk from an individual level IMO Look at the Mexicans. They have absolutely no way to protect themselves from criminals. No rights to own guns. No functioning police force. No functioning government. They just live in fear and constantly get fucked.
      - yawaramin 5y ago
        Is the solution to Mexico's situation to arm everyone in greater quantities? Is the US suffering from those levels of crime? What's the likelihood that a random person will experience a home invasion/kidnapping scenario in the US? Now what's the risk of kids finding the guns in the house and accidentally discharging them? What's the risk of increased suicides? Someone firing a gun because they got into an emotionally heated argument? There are many factors. It's not clear-cut. If we followed your reasoning, we would never step outside the house, because a drunk driver might crash into and kill us at any moment while we're walking outside.
        burner556 5y ago
        Lots of questions there :) I would say all of the concerns in your second paragraph are thought provoking. My personal view is that this is acceptable collateral damage for our individual rights guaranteed in our constitution. I think the rights of the individual are more important than a slightly less violent society on average, because there is some personal agency to protect yourself and your family. Regarding your first point, according to my Mexican friend the solution is most definitely NOT to arm all Mexicans. I’m not sure what the solution is but I know if I ever live in Mexico I’m obtaining a gun for protection. Fun fact gun rights are enshrined in the Mexican constitution as a right of the people but surprise as government's tend to do they have taken that power away from the people. I don’t see how my logic is related to drunk drivers possibly killing me. I’m not paranoid about possibilities but check the LA news about how many homeless people break into people’s houses / stab people. If I lived in rural America I wouldn’t be worried but if you live in a rough neighborhood you have to be prepared because the cops aren’t going to come quick enough to save your life if needed.

xxpor 5y ago

That's exactly my point. For the average person, it's not a net win to have that gun around. The chance you'll be the victim of a random occupied home invasion is VERY VERY small.

burner556 5y ago
I agree with you, however: I’m not willing to give up my individual freedom to protect my family for the benefit of the group. If you are, cool. Also, my eyebrows are raised at the idea that protecting your family is toxic in your OG comment. Come again?
- xxpor 5y ago
  I protect my family by making the world a better place/supporting structural solutions to problems. Not by pretending I'm going to be a hero by shooting someone that just wants stuff. Unfortunately for a lot of folks on the right, they do think that's what'll happen. What will actually happen is something like this: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-toddler-gun-car-shoots-mother-sibling-82105585 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-toddler-gun-car-sh... In the worst cases, people's gun collections become a significant contributor to their ego. See also: lifted trucks.
  - burner556 5y ago
    Thanks for your input. How do you know somebody crashing through your window just wants stuff? What if they can kidnap your wife / hold somebody hostage to get even more stuff. Is that a risk you’re willing to take? Agreed with your point on ego, it is sad. I would just add that responsible gun owners keep their guns locked up at all times especially with children in the house. Can’t say everybody is responsible but the benefit is worth the risk from an individual level IMO Look at the Mexicans. They have absolutely no way to protect themselves from criminals. No rights to own guns. No functioning police force. No functioning government. They just live in fear and constantly get fucked.
    - yawaramin 5y ago
      Is the solution to Mexico's situation to arm everyone in greater quantities? Is the US suffering from those levels of crime? What's the likelihood that a random person will experience a home invasion/kidnapping scenario in the US? Now what's the risk of kids finding the guns in the house and accidentally discharging them? What's the risk of increased suicides? Someone firing a gun because they got into an emotionally heated argument? There are many factors. It's not clear-cut. If we followed your reasoning, we would never step outside the house, because a drunk driver might crash into and kill us at any moment while we're walking outside.
      - burner556 5y ago
        Lots of questions there :) I would say all of the concerns in your second paragraph are thought provoking. My personal view is that this is acceptable collateral damage for our individual rights guaranteed in our constitution. I think the rights of the individual are more important than a slightly less violent society on average, because there is some personal agency to protect yourself and your family. Regarding your first point, according to my Mexican friend the solution is most definitely NOT to arm all Mexicans. I’m not sure what the solution is but I know if I ever live in Mexico I’m obtaining a gun for protection. Fun fact gun rights are enshrined in the Mexican constitution as a right of the people but surprise as government's tend to do they have taken that power away from the people. I don’t see how my logic is related to drunk drivers possibly killing me. I’m not paranoid about possibilities but check the LA news about how many homeless people break into people’s houses / stab people. If I lived in rural America I wouldn’t be worried but if you live in a rough neighborhood you have to be prepared because the cops aren’t going to come quick enough to save your life if needed.