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I am genuinely curious to see how this will turn out. I understand and sympathise with both points of view, I could see myself arguing for both points of view.

I am genuinely curious to see how this will turn out. I understand and sympathise with both points of view, I could see myself arguing for both points of view. But the fundamental truth is that to "save the planet" we need to pay for the long term cost rather than short term cost of everything we make. Perhaps we don't need to use more power, we actually need to use less, substantially so say 10x or 100x less. Only then can we reduce carbon emissions. Making electricity expensive could be the first necessary step - though it is not clear if it is the right step.

hulitu 5y ago
> Perhaps we don't need to use more power, we actually need to use less, substantially so say 10x or 100x less. The bad news is that we are on a path to replace gasoline and diesel cars with electric ones. I'm really interested how the electric grid will look like in 10 years.
- throway23 5y ago
throway23 5y ago
Yeah thanks to this logic and eu diktats we have less powerful lightbulbs accross europe. So turning the lights on at night means you can barely see, and instead you have to … uy more lightbulbs. The soviets also thought that the solution to its financial problems was to consume less. So the answer is really to make energy more available, cheaper, and cleaner by mass investments in solar in the south, wind in the north, and clean and safe nuclear everywhere in between. Just because one country, germany, doesnt mind spending nights in the dark or having workers sleep early to be able to slave away in factories it doesnt mean all of europe should obey. Build safe nuclear and build it fast before russia drains our pockets with their expensive gas.
- Hokusai 5y ago
  > Yeah thanks to this logic and eu diktats we have less powerful lightbulbs accross europe. Philips LED E27 2000 Lumen for 20 Euros: https://www.lampe.de/philips-led-e27-120-watt-2700-kelvin-2000-lumen-8718699764814.html https://www.lampe.de/philips-led-e27-120-watt-2700-kelvin-20... If you need something more powerful you should look for photography equipment.

hulitu 5y ago

> Perhaps we don't need to use more power, we actually need to use less, substantially so say 10x or 100x less. The bad news is that we are on a path to replace gasoline and diesel cars with electric ones. I'm really interested how the electric grid will look like in 10 years.

throway23 5y ago

throway23 5y ago

Yeah thanks to this logic and eu diktats we have less powerful lightbulbs accross europe. So turning the lights on at night means you can barely see, and instead you have to … uy more lightbulbs. The soviets also thought that the solution to its financial problems was to consume less. So the answer is really to make energy more available, cheaper, and cleaner by mass investments in solar in the south, wind in the north, and clean and safe nuclear everywhere in between. Just because one country, germany, doesnt mind spending nights in the dark or having workers sleep early to be able to slave away in factories it doesnt mean all of europe should obey. Build safe nuclear and build it fast before russia drains our pockets with their expensive gas.

Hokusai 5y ago
> Yeah thanks to this logic and eu diktats we have less powerful lightbulbs accross europe. Philips LED E27 2000 Lumen for 20 Euros: https://www.lampe.de/philips-led-e27-120-watt-2700-kelvin-2000-lumen-8718699764814.html https://www.lampe.de/philips-led-e27-120-watt-2700-kelvin-20... If you need something more powerful you should look for photography equipment.